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Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:00 pm
by IanL
Keith Reeder wrote:
Robby-D wrote:Don't know why you guys are all piling on "NN635398439392572200UL" or why you feel the need to tell them their opinion is invalid.

Nobody did that - it's his snotty, entitled attitude that's being commented on, not the point he's making.


Yep, that and the instance that his opinion is some how obvious fact the we are some how incapable of seeing it. You may feel something is bad policy but many of us don't see it that way. Our opinions are our opinions not somehow wrong and therefore worthy of ridicule.

When I was displeased by Adobe I did write a post explaining my reasons for looking elsewhere. One post and a couple of questions answered and that's it. Then I left. When I came here I made a point of telling Phase One why I left Adobe so they were aware that thier policies were a reason I am here.

I once had a friend in marketing explain that if your prices don't cause anyone to decide not to buy then your prices are to low. Phase one may be just realizing they were under pricing thier software.

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:59 pm
by NN635398439392572200UL
IanL wrote:
Keith Reeder wrote:
Robby-D wrote:Don't know why you guys are all piling on "NN635398439392572200UL" or why you feel the need to tell them their opinion is invalid.

Nobody did that - it's his snotty, entitled attitude that's being commented on, not the point he's making.


Yep, that and the instance that his opinion is some how obvious fact the we are some how incapable of seeing it. You may feel something is bad policy but many of us don't see it that way. Our opinions are our opinions not somehow wrong and therefore worthy of ridicule.

When I was displeased by Adobe I did write a post explaining my reasons for looking elsewhere. One post and a couple of questions answered and that's it. Then I left. When I came here I made a point of telling Phase One why I left Adobe so they were aware that thier policies were a reason I am here.

I once had a friend in marketing explain that if your prices don't cause anyone to decide not to buy then your prices are to low. Phase one may be just realizing they were under pricing thier software.


You missed one little important detail. I was the one whose right to an opinion was being questioned. From what you wrote I'm guessing you think it is a good policy. So good for you I and a few others in this thread don't. I'm flattered they singled me out in there attempt to defend the policy.

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:32 pm
by Peter
Attention Phase One. Please put us out of our collective misery and delete this thread. I don't understand why it has been allowed to run, and run....
Thank you, Peter

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:18 pm
by NN636139655180027490UL
Peter wrote:Attention Phase One. Please put us out of our collective misery and delete this thread. I don't understand why it has been allowed to run, and run....
Thank you, Peter


I'll second that, Peter. This thread has gone from an informative feature discussion to I don't know what. Ridiculous!

Mike

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:13 am
by NNN635527904509697615
Hello,

I noticed a mal function of the website : while logged in my phase one account, i went on to purchase an upgrade from C1v11 to C1v12. My wife used her payment information to make the purchase (while logged to my account) yet the purchase has identified her information (mainly email and name) to be a new user instead of crediting the license to my account...

Obviously all websites make a clear distinction between user account information and payment information, perhaps Phase One can take the following steps to ensure other people don't have the same issue :

1 ) Do not converge the payment information and the account information
2) Disable the display or requirement of email in the purchasing protocol if a user is already logged in (name is still required as logically a name is attached to a bank card, this should allow to make a purchase to a personal account using a different credit card).

Thank you for your attention

PS : I have made a customer service ticket asking to credit my P1 account with the license that I am still missing since purchase.

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:20 am
by NNN635527904509697615
I noticed that the purchase went wrong as i was charged the BUY price instead of the Upgrade price ... Il remake a ticket asking instead for a refund and ill repurchase is with the proper price with your help.

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:57 pm
by Schopi68
NN636139655180027490UL wrote:I'll second that, Peter. This thread has gone from an informative feature discussion to I don't know what. Ridiculous!


Maybe the feature discussion stopped after all new features had been discussed on the first page of the thread?

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:34 am
by Wesley
NN635398439392572200UL wrote:
Keith Reeder wrote:
Robby-D wrote:Don't know why you guys are all piling on "NN635398439392572200UL" or why you feel the need to tell them their opinion is invalid.

Nobody did that - it's his snotty, entitled attitude that's being commented on, not the point he's making.


I think in some strange way you read more into my comment than what was there. That's your hang up. I said this policy sucks in no uncertain terms and my observation of companies that resort to these methods of generating cash. I feel personally people defending Phase ones policy should do some soul searching.

Actually original post quote in case you forgot.
"I'm a long time user. Upgraded to V11 2 months ago and I have to pay full upgrade $149 again for V12 NO DEAL! Customer service is the first to go when companies are failing. I can only deduce this is the case time to research alternatives."

If you're a long time user, you would know Capture One's update history and hold off on updating. If not, then a Google search would show you its history in less than a minute.

I'm assuming Phase One's grace period is within 30 days of purchase which is a standard anywhere else. Tell me a store that would let me upgrade my camera I bought after a newer model come out 2 months later. They would say, "I don't think so pal. You have to buy the new one full price."

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:16 pm
by NN635398439392572200UL
Wesley wrote:
NN635398439392572200UL wrote:If you're a long time user, you would know Capture One's update history and hold off on updating. If not, then a Google search would show you its history in less than a minute.

I'm assuming Phase One's grace period is within 30 days of purchase which is a standard anywhere else. Tell me a store that would let me upgrade my camera I bought after a newer model come out 2 months later. They would say, "I don't think so pal. You have to buy the new one full price."


Well I didn't want to have to prove PhaseOne wasn't always like this but here you go an old support request supported (names removed). Let's just say kinder gentler times. By the way I own Fuji cameras there known to upgrade firmware with NEW features years later works wonders for customer retention!

05-12-2016 12:51
Supporter


Thank you for reaching out and for the interest in Capture One Pro 10.

As you are just outside of our grace period I can not offer you a free upgrade, but instead I would like to offer you a 50% discount on the upgrade.

Please use the voucher below when checking out of our e-shop, in order to obtain the discount.

Voucher: XXXX-XXX-XX

Feel free to let me know if you have any questions and have fun with Capture One Pro 10.

Best regards,

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 am
by Wesley
NN635398439392572200UL wrote:
Wesley wrote:
NN635398439392572200UL wrote:If you're a long time user, you would know Capture One's update history and hold off on updating. If not, then a Google search would show you its history in less than a minute.

I'm assuming Phase One's grace period is within 30 days of purchase which is a standard anywhere else. Tell me a store that would let me upgrade my camera I bought after a newer model come out 2 months later. They would say, "I don't think so pal. You have to buy the new one full price."


Well I didn't want to have to prove PhaseOne wasn't always like this but here you go an old support request supported (names removed). Let's just say kinder gentler times. By the way I own Fuji cameras there known to upgrade firmware with NEW features years later works wonders for customer retention!

05-12-2016 12:51
Supporter


Thank you for reaching out and for the interest in Capture One Pro 10.

As you are just outside of our grace period I can not offer you a free upgrade, but instead I would like to offer you a 50% discount on the upgrade.

Please use the voucher below when checking out of our e-shop, in order to obtain the discount.

Voucher: XXXX-XXX-XX

Feel free to let me know if you have any questions and have fun with Capture One Pro 10.

Best regards,

So you've upgraded near the time it updates before...
How far were you out of the grace period that time?

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:42 am
by NNN636486143627993816
I currently have C1 Pro Sony 11. I would like to upgrade to v12, however, as others have pointed out the upgrade cost is a little steep, but more than that, existing customers are being screwed.

At the time of writing, if I were to buy C1 Pro Sony 12 outright as a new customer it would cost £219 vs upgrade cost of £109....representing a reasonable saving of £110 for existing customers, not too bad, until you factor in the new customer also gets the Film styles pack thrown in for free, but the upgraded does not & that would add £69 to the upgrades bill to compare like with like vs a new customer.....so the upgrade only saves £41, which seems like a poor deal and a bad way to treat existing customers.

To compound a bad situation, a new customer could get C1PS12 with 3 style packs - Cine, film and B&W for £288. The upgrade can get C1PS12 with 3 style packs for £148, which again looks reasonable, until you realise that the 3 style packs are Two of the cheaper (£39) Packs, Sunbound, Deep Forest & Seasonal,...which personally, I’m not interested in.

So once again the existing customer is penalised.

I perceive the Film Style pack as the most desirable, followed by the B&W pack, & maybe Cinematic. From what I’ve seen of the other style packs, I’m not interested in any of the others. I suspect many others may feel that the Film pack is the one of greatest interest too.

So, the upshot is, I’m not upgrading.

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:05 pm
by SFA
NNN636486143627993816 wrote:
So, the upshot is, I’m not upgrading.


Interesting logic.

There is, of course, nothing to stop you creating the "styles" yourself and saving all of that money.

Better still you could just create the styles you may sometimes want to use and not have all of the others cluttering up your system. And they would be YOUR styles displaying your creativity.



Grant

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:23 pm
by NNN636486143627993816
Grant, nice of you to reply to my post, thank you.

You are right, I can create my own styles, and there is nothing stopping me doing that even if I had Film Styles pack that is being given away free to new users.

It’s the principle here I think, existing users are being offered a relatively poorer deal, how’s that going to build customer satisfaction and brand loyalty?

The reason why I perceive the Film Styles pack is particularly worth getting (& the others less so), is because I assume that someone has taken some time & care in creating the Film styles to mimic the look of film stock. That seems to me to be a worthwhile Style option to have and work with, rather than someone like me just ‘guessing’ what contrast, colour shift & grain to apply to get a representative film look. The difference between the Film styles pack and the other styles is that I perceive there is some correlation work involved in creating the Film styles, rather than just creating a style that someone else likes. I think there is a difference.....but as I said, it’s more a principle of existing users being treated as second class citizens vs new users.

Re: Capture One 12 released!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:01 pm
by SFA
NNN636486143627993816 wrote:Grant, nice of you to reply to my post, thank you.

You are right, I can create my own styles, and there is nothing stopping me doing that even if I had Film Styles pack that is being given away free to new users.

It’s the principle here I think, existing users are being offered a relatively poorer deal, how’s that going to build customer satisfaction and brand loyalty?

The reason why I perceive the Film Styles pack is particularly worth getting (& the others less so), is because I assume that someone has taken some time & care in creating the Film styles to mimic the look of film stock. That seems to me to be a worthwhile Style option to have and work with, rather than someone like me just ‘guessing’ what contrast, colour shift & grain to apply to get a representative film look. The difference between the Film styles pack and the other styles is that I perceive there is some correlation work involved in creating the Film styles, rather than just creating a style that someone else likes. I think there is a difference.....but as I said, it’s more a principle of existing users being treated as second class citizens vs new users.


Hmm.

Do you have a mobile phone on contract?

If so are you able to make use of all of the minutes, texts and data the contract includes?

I think it is possible that Phase are trying to work out what the market for "Styles" actually is and whether it matters that several other providers toss out hundreds of "styles" as part of a package that is, presumably, intended to attract people who, most of the time, don't want to do that work themselves or don't feel they have the ability. That's fair enough but presumably marketing see it as a form of 'loss leader' to shift licence sales rather than a valuable add on.

Which of those possible roles the styles may perform is not easy to decide!

The way the Fuji film styles have been implemented makes sense for your "mimic the look of film stock" observation.

Throwing a style over the top of whatever processing has been applied so far ... seems less satisfactory IF one is looking for consistent results giving true representation.

But deals are deals and whether one wins or looses on a particular day (as one sees it) is something of a lottery and rarely reversible.

Frankly not getting a cheap deal on something I don't need or particularly want is not enough to put me off taking an upgrade that adds something to the toolbox for things I might wish to do.

In most situations there are 'deals' on offer to attract new customers that ar not available to existing customers. It's a way of creaing customer churn and usually the offer is limited ("HALF PRICE" (for six months after which it will be a lot more plus increases and exit fees) is a very common approach in many 'utility' type operations for example.) There are many similar situations in everyday retail activities.

The overheads and general economics of trying to cover even angle to make every viewpoint happy at all times are simply too complex and unlikely to work.

I note that Canon are on record as expecting the standalone camera market (all sectors from what I remember) to contract significantly in the next few years. People favour phones it seems.

By implication that suggests that the market for extensive photo editing software (as opposed to phone apps) is likely to shrink as well.

Will there be a (low) price vs perceived quality battle appearing soon? If so, which products do we see as mass market and which as high end quality? How can each end of the market be priced to survive and prosper?

I do see where you are coming from. I'm just not sure that you conclusion to not upgrade make sense (to me) in the context. If you can use the new facilities available in total or in part, to decide not to upgrade on the basis of not getting a cheap deal on something you mostly don't want is a little like the old saying of "cutting off your nose to spite your face." Or at least that is how I rationalise things to myself when I have similar conflicts about the fairness of deals available to old and new customers or anything similar.

Or have I missed something?

Either way it is entirely your decision at this time. I would be surprised if some sort of deals were not offered to keep the Styles market active in coming months - especially if they are being used as a carrot by marketing. You may find that eventually something appears that fits with your view of fairness. I certainly hope so - but I must stress that I am only speculating.


Grant

Re: Capture One 12 released

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:48 pm
by NNN636486143627993816
Another great response Grant ;-)

Let me start with your first question about mobile phone contracts, because it’s funny you picked on that subject.....no, I don’t have a mobile phone contract, seemingly the last person on Earth not to I think! ;-) Having said that, let’s run with the analogy, okay so if I had a contract and most months I’ve not used up my allotted quota of data/calls/txts, so what? I don’t use every feature in C1 every month....for that matter, I’m sure there are parts of C1 that I’ve not used since getting C1 ;-) ....so, I guess, I’m not entirely sure where you were going with that analogy, but it would have applied to me very well anyway not having a mobile contract ;-)

You may well be right when it comes to P1 marketing working out how to make Styles work for them.

I am not a huge fan of ‘Styles’ generally, before coming to C1 from Adobe products (which I left because I dislike the way they went with their subscription model, having just purchased a CS pack & then being left high & dry) I tried multiple packages to find a PS replacement. I can’t recall which it was, but one was heavily ‘styles’ based (Might have been photolemur?) & it just felt like I was applying a filter each time over my images, it just didn’t feel very satisfactory, and ‘Styles’ are generally the same. As said before though, I do feel that the Film styles is a little different to the other styles, it’s the one pack I feel might add something, probably as a starting point on which to develop from....like you would with real film, you choose a film for a certain look, take your shots and then in the darkroom, you might develop from there & print on a multi grade paper to affect the overall look further, maybe dodge & burn elements in the frame. I see the Film style pack in a similar light. You select one as your starter no point on your image, then adjust the image further from there to get the look & feel you want. Most of the other Style packs appear to be like the filters that I’ve applied in other apps that I didn’t overly like.

You are right, though the Fuji film simulations would appeal to me....but I shoot Sony because a FF sensor appeals more....purely due to decades of using lenses on 35mm and knowing what to expect. I used an APS when I first went digital, and never found it satisfactory really and then went to FF.

I saw that article about Canon projecting a continued shrinking market. I see that they have two issues. One, that the overall market is shrinking, and secondly, that they are losing customers to the likes of Fuji & Sony, so Canon are losing market share too. They have not given their customers what they want, their city’s timers have eventually walked....sound familiar?....& I think you have a good point, that if the market for cameras is shrinking, then it stands to reason that the market for PC photo editing software is shrinking too. Now faced with that, do you really want to upset your existing user base in a shrinking market, or do you want to keep them happy and upgrading? A Rhetorical question maybe.

I can understand why you question my conclusion (& yes, I can be stubborn and willing to cut my nose off ;-) ), let me try and explain it another way. V11->V12, from what I’ve seen/read, I’d say the only real driver for me to upgrade is the new luminance masks, I’m quite happy with the font size in v11 & the UI & background colour. £109 to upgrade just to get the lum masks is quite a lot, I don’t use C1 day in day out. Additionally, I’ve been getting by without lum masks since I bought C1, so it’s again, they are not critical to me, just very nice to haves. I can continue to use v11 perfectly fine if I have to. Throwing in the Film Styles would have helped the value equation for sure, but they are not, they would be £69 more. Then seeing the discrepancy between existing & new customers, where existing customers are not being treated equally, is a demerit for me. I get it, that if I’d just missed out on a time limited deal, it’s just one of those things, but that’s not the situation here. It’s poor treatment of existing customers, you are right other companies do similar, offer incentives to get new customers, and then screw them when they are off the incentive plan and part of the normal user base.....I have closed accounts and left companies likevtgat in the past, not because I was shopping around for a better deal, but purely because I felt the company was abusing me. It takes a fair bit to push me to leave, but once my minds made up I leave.

So, I’ve been using C1 without lum masks, I can continue to, no problem. P1 loses out as I don’t upgrade, I lose out because I don’t have new features. Why? Because I feel the company are not treating me fairly, so why would I want to give them any more of my money......exactly why I don’t like subscription, you walk away, you have nothing, I walk away, I still have C1 V11 which works well enough.

Lawrence.