Normalize tutorial

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Normalize tutorial

Postby NNN636440347581429185 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:12 pm

I am a walking disaster area when it comes to using the Normalize tool and I am looking for an in-depth tutorial. Any suggestions?

One problem that I am experiencing occurs when I am using the color picker and I select a color and open the "Color Selector" window. The left side of the window shows my selected profile ProPhoto while the right side shows Adobe RGB. I am unable to get both sides to agree unless I select Adobe RGB as my color profile.
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby tenmangu81 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:36 pm

It is completely normal that RGB (or HSB) color values are different when using different profiles.

I use the "Normalize" tool by clicking on a part of an image with the "pick normalize color" (arrow up), then going to an other image and applying the white balance or exposure with the "apply normalization" (arrow down).
The profile you see in the right hand side of the window is the one that you have selected in the "Process Recipe", and the profile field you see in the left hand side of the window is there to compare with an other profile, in case you would check if the white balance/exposure would be out when printing or sending to the web, for instance.
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby SFA » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:54 pm

NNN636440347581429185 wrote:I am a walking disaster area when it comes to using the Normalize tool and I am looking for an in-depth tutorial. Any suggestions?

One problem that I am experiencing occurs when I am using the color picker and I select a color and open the "Color Selector" window. The left side of the window shows my selected profile ProPhoto while the right side shows Adobe RGB. I am unable to get both sides to agree unless I select Adobe RGB as my color profile.


Have you read the help section of the User Guide for the Normalize tool?

It covers several pages, has some examples, plenty of discussion points and seems very complete.

There are aspects of it that would probably be of most interest to experienced technicians working in colour critical projects require exact matches. Those section may be a little complex but I would assume that people who need that level of control would already be familiar with the concepts and so mainly need the technical understanding.

It is probably worth mentioning that the default colour space profile for processing in C1 is ProPhoto.
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby Ian3 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:23 pm

SFA wrote:It is probably worth mentioning that the default colour space profile for processing in C1 is ProPhoto.

Is it? What should one do about that?

Ian
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby tenmangu81 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:48 pm

SFA wrote:It is probably worth mentioning that the default colour space profile for processing in C1 is ProPhoto.


Is it right ? I've been looking for the working colour space of Capture One for a long time, asked about that and didn't find any answer. May I ask where you found this information ? Thanks.
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby SFA » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:34 pm

Ian3 wrote:
SFA wrote:It is probably worth mentioning that the default colour space profile for processing in C1 is ProPhoto.

Is it? What should one do about that?

Ian


Nothing.

It is a pretty much universally adopted colour space having about the widest colour gamut coverage potential for digital images.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProPhoto_RGB_color_space
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby NNN636440347581429185 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:46 pm

Thank you.

I was able to get the profile to match, ProPhoto RGB.

I figure that I am still doing something wrong because when I sampled the color it look right, but when I used it it looked psychedelic.

I found the on-line"Working with the Normalize tool" where it says that I should be able to "Specifying color values by number". Again, I must be doing something wrong there too, because my results are less than satisfactory.

I will continue to brute force the process and hopefully I will be able to solve it in this lifetime
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby SFA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:23 am

tenmangu81 wrote:
SFA wrote:It is probably worth mentioning that the default colour space profile for processing in C1 is ProPhoto.


Is it right ? I've been looking for the working colour space of Capture One for a long time, asked about that and didn't find any answer. May I ask where you found this information ? Thanks.


I think the information was posted somewhere a few years ago but I don't recall exactly where.

A general search can find posts on the net that suggest the internal colour space used is "very close to ProPhoto RGB".

However the more likely confirmation is that using the Normalize tool and opening up the subwindow discussed the right hand side shows the current colour space for the selected image and the left the values for the target colour space with defaults of Adobe RGB and sRGB selectable and other colour spaces possible.

Looking at this with "Proofing" OFF the subwindow reports ProPhoto for all images - various RAW files, DNGs, jpgs, etc..

Turning Proofing ON will apply (and so report) the name of the ICC profile set in the Output Recipe on the right hand side.

Assuming this in not a bug of some sort that does seem to suggest that the internal colour space is something close enough to ProPhoto to be able to refer to it as such.

Whether that really means much for practical purposes may depend more on the capabilities of one's monitor screen.

I should probably add that I am currently sitting working with a V11 system but I am not aware of any notification of changes for the Normalize tool in V12.


HTH.


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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby tenmangu81 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:37 am

Hi Grant,

I was looking for an info about colour management in my records this morning and, unexpectedly, I came across a sentence I reported, saying the working space of Capture One was very close to ProPhoto. But I don't recall where I picked up this assertion.... :D

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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby SFA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:44 am

tenmangu81 wrote:Hi Grant,

I was looking for an info about colour management in my records this morning and, unexpectedly, I came across a sentence I noticed, saying the working space of Capture One was very close to ProPhoto. But I don't recall where I picked up this assertion.... :D

Robert


I think it's a post on the forum.

I came across the post yesterday while searching for the source of my understanding - although my distant memory was leading me to other sources form some years ago. I did not find a the specific source I had in mind but then our memories of such things are rarely specific enough at such times!


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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby NNN636440347581429185 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:35 pm

According to what I found on the "Working with the Normalize tool, Specifying color values by number", Adobe RGB and sRGB are the defaults:
"3. Click-on the Profile field and select a profile from the list. Adobe RGB and sRGB are the defaults, however, you can select from any of the profiles on your system. (If not listed, select Show All, to display the system profiles.)"
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby SFA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:17 pm

NNN636440347581429185 wrote:According to what I found on the "Working with the Normalize tool, Specifying color values by number", Adobe RGB and sRGB are the defaults:
"3. Click-on the Profile field and select a profile from the list. Adobe RGB and sRGB are the defaults, however, you can select from any of the profiles on your system. (If not listed, select Show All, to display the system profiles.)"


Yes, that's on the LH side.

The RH side shows the colour space the currently displayed image is being processed within at the present time.

If Proofing is not active it will be the default internal colour space.

If proofing IS active it will the the colour space of the recipe that is currently displayed in ORANGE highlight.

Or at least that is my understanding.


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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby tenmangu81 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:53 pm

SFA wrote:The RH side shows the colour space the currently displayed image is being processed within at the present time.

If Proofing is not active it will be the default internal colour space.

If proofing IS active it will the the colour space of the recipe that is currently displayed in ORANGE highlight.
Or at least that is my understanding.
Grant


Well, that's what I thought, but when the proof profile is OFF ("No profile"), the RH side of the Normalize window displays "Adobe RGB" :roll:
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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby tenmangu81 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:28 pm

Hi all,

I have done some experiments on a sample picture with a blue gradient, where I have pushed the saturation in such a way that part of the blue area reached a 255 value.
And I have selected various output colour spaces in a test process recipe.
The saturated area extended the farthest when selecting sRGB, then decreased with Adobe RGB, ProStar (which is a ProPhoto with L* curve) and ProPhoto in this order. So, it seems clear that, as there are differences from sRGB up to Prophoto, the latter should be at least the working colour space for Capture One.
But what stunned me is that the saturated area extended even less than ProPhoto when I selected "Embed camera profile" :?:

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Re: Normalize tutorial

Postby SFA » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:00 pm

tenmangu81 wrote:
SFA wrote:The RH side shows the colour space the currently displayed image is being processed within at the present time.

If Proofing is not active it will be the default internal colour space.

If proofing IS active it will the the colour space of the recipe that is currently displayed in ORANGE highlight.
Or at least that is my understanding.
Grant


Well, that's what I thought, but when the proof profile is OFF ("No profile"), the RH side of the Normalize window displays "Adobe RGB" :roll:
Robert


Ah! Good spot.

Mine does the same. No surprise I guess but something of a puzzle as to the source of the selection decision.

It may be simply that only sRGB and Adobe RGB would make sense as default selection for a typical screen and Adobe RGB would likely be seen as a better option historically for the average user.

Others with greater concerns about the processing colour space and display on the screen of choice would likely have set their selections in the light of their own experiences and preferences?

Or there may be some other reason ... I would probably be good to know what that is.


Grant




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