History

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony)012. x and 11.x

History

Postby MikeFromMesa » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:26 pm

Is there some adjustment history kept by C1? I was trying to find a way to back up to a previous point in processing but could not find a history list other than the processing history which seems to describe output processing, not adjustment processing.

I know I can "undo" but I was looking for something that would allow me to back up to some previous adjustment setting as you can do in Lightroom. Is there such a thing in C1? And, if so, where? As it is now the only thing I can think to do is add adjustment layers and mark each one with the changes, but even then it requires a series of deletes to back up.
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Re: History

Postby tenmangu81 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:09 pm

Unfortunately not, as the general philosophy of the two softwares (Lightroom and Capture One) is quite different.
A workaround would be to make all adjustments through layers (with full masks on), as you think about it. You don't need to delete the layers, you just have to un-crosscheck them.
I have done it sometimes, but I admit it's not an easy workaround. The best thing to do is to forget Lightroom..... :D
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Re: History

Postby SFA » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:38 am

You can "Undo" the previous adjustment and so step back thorugh changes using Undo but not go back to a previous point via some sort of list.

However I never found a list very helpful using other applications since unless you have fully annotated every change you ever make (if the software allows that) you still don't really know which change you wanted IF a single change via copy and paste (for example) may actually apply multiple adjustments within the list.

In my opinion using a "Variant" (or whatever an application might call its alternative version of an image) is a far better approach to efficiently producing alternative versions of images when required.

HTH.


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Re: History

Postby MikeFromMesa » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:51 am

SFA wrote:However I never found a list very helpful using other applications since unless you have fully annotated every change you ever make


My main experience with this has been with Photoshop and there I found it easy to return to some mid-change point. Since I use luminosity masking a lot in PS I just return to where I created the LM and start from there.

As for LR, I have it as part of the Adobe photography program but I almost never actually use it. I know it contains a history list, but that is because I used to use LR before I discovered better alternatives.
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Re: History

Postby MikeFromMesa » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:53 am

tenmangu81 wrote:A workaround would be to make all adjustments through layers (with full masks on), as you think about it. You don't need to delete the layers, you just have to un-crosscheck them.


I have done this, but it is tiresome since it requires a new layer for every adjustment and each layer requires annotation.

tenmangu81 wrote:The best thing to do is to forget Lightroom..... :D


Yes, but like a bad dream, it keeps coming back to haunt me ...
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Re: History

Postby Eric Nepean » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:16 am

Since each layer can be named, and can turned on and off, it is possible to save a number of interim editting stages as layer, and the layer name can indicate sequence. However this rapidly get messy if you are using several layers for different parts of the image.

A better strategy is to clone the variant at various editting stages. Notes can be left in several ways:
  1. An empty layer can be inserted with the notes as the name of the layer.
  2. Annotations can be used to write the notes on top of the image
  3. Notes can be left in one of the Metadata fields - perhaps Status Instructions

Another strategy is to save the adjustments at some point as a user defined style.

it should be dead easy for the developers to make a faux image adjustment that just has a text field, and can be included in any layer. Even better if the text field can be shown as annotation on top of the image.
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Re: History

Postby MikeFromMesa » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:43 pm

Those are all good ideas, but it would be nice to have a history list. C1 seems fairly complete for a workflow tool but it does not seem hard to create an actual list with changes*.

* Then, of course, there is the general rule that nothing is impossible for the person who does not have to do the work.
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Re: History

Postby EdHed » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:26 am

I saw some form of this comment in several entries: "I never found a list very helpful using other applications."
I have used several applications that have a chronological history list, and how many lines of history you want is set in the preferences. I think PS can handle up to 50, and LR up to 20, and there are apps such as InDesign with the same feature. Some word processors have the feature. Luminar and DxO PhotoLab have it. Now that I have said that, I must also admit that the list is not always accurate, and the more undos the app records (keeps track of), the more likely it is to fowl things up.
While a history could be useful, I would rather be able to combine layers. After you have created your adjustment and are happy with it, why not add those adjustments to a new variant. You can dump the old variant after you have completed your photo and are ready for publishing. However, I have found no way of combining layers. We are allowed up to 16 layers total, and that is probably a sufficient number, but occasionally, and especially in repairing photos, I have needed more layers than 16 - but because I could combine layers for many effects, I could continue adding more layers. If the effect did not work, I could remove all layers involved in that effect.
The RESET buttons are the tools we should be looking to. But often, I forget to check my work as carefully as I should, and I find that I have painted myself into a corner - I need that history list now.
I genuinely love Capture One, and I am doing my best to overlook my learning problems - like unlearning what I have been doing for 20 years in other applications. That is a biggy. I came to this topic hoping to find a solution, but I find after reading the entries that I may just have to reinvent my work methods. I would ask if anyone has seriously included the RESET buttons into their regular workflow and what they have concluded from the use.
Ok. I apologize. I never meant for this to go this long. I'm an ENT. Cheers! :shock:
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Re: History

Postby SFA » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:00 pm

EdHed wrote:I saw some form of this comment in several entries: "I never found a list very helpful using other applications."
I have used several applications that have a chronological history list, and how many lines of history you want is set in the preferences. I think PS can handle up to 50, and LR up to 20, and there are apps such as InDesign with the same feature. Some word processors have the feature. Luminar and DxO PhotoLab have it. Now that I have said that, I must also admit that the list is not always accurate, and the more undos the app records (keeps track of), the more likely it is to fowl things up.
While a history could be useful, I would rather be able to combine layers. After you have created your adjustment and are happy with it, why not add those adjustments to a new variant. You can dump the old variant after you have completed your photo and are ready for publishing. However, I have found no way of combining layers. We are allowed up to 16 layers total, and that is probably a sufficient number, but occasionally, and especially in repairing photos, I have needed more layers than 16 - but because I could combine layers for many effects, I could continue adding more layers. If the effect did not work, I could remove all layers involved in that effect.
The RESET buttons are the tools we should be looking to. But often, I forget to check my work as carefully as I should, and I find that I have painted myself into a corner - I need that history list now.
I genuinely love Capture One, and I am doing my best to overlook my learning problems - like unlearning what I have been doing for 20 years in other applications. That is a biggy. I came to this topic hoping to find a solution, but I find after reading the entries that I may just have to reinvent my work methods. I would ask if anyone has seriously included the RESET buttons into their regular workflow and what they have concluded from the use.
Ok. I apologize. I never meant for this to go this long. I'm an ENT. Cheers! :shock:


I got (somewhat) into the habit of using what C1 terms "Variants" using another product before I decided it was time to discover what capture one was all about.

The other product also had history entries but realistically it was usually difficult to work out how far to step back in history since a single edit action - something like applying a style or deleting a layer - could result in multiple individual tool edits and working out which step was the 'go back to' point was almost impossible sometimes.

If one stepped back and forth a few times the changes list became unmanageable. Making a copy of a known edit status that one could refer back to made much more sense.

With that other program the number of layers was unlimited (as I recall) BUT things could slow quite dramatically once up to about 10 layers depending on what the layers were doing.

The layer concept was slightly different in that each layer was for a single tool instance so the potential for having a large number of layers with multiple instances of the same mask used for different tools was quite high. Potentially significantly higher than in C1 - depending on how one works.

For combining layers one has to consider what one is combining. The masks, if different, would not be easily combined with rethinking the concepts of a layer. Basically making it something else.

The group of tools and settings could be combined, up to a point. Providing a set of layers does not have the same tool used with different settings for different masks it might be possible to save the layers as a single style and then re-deployed as the adjustments for a single layer (for which a mask would need to be defined.)

That said in my workflow, unless I am experimenting or testing, I cannot recall reaching as many as 10 layers of changes so for me the need to extend the number of layers OR combine layers if possible to release more of the available 15 layers is not a matter of urgency.

It is, however, quite an interesting concept to discuss. It has the feel of one of those ideas about which everyone will have different opinions in terms of how any functionality related to it should be designed.

Limiting Scope Creep could be a big challenge for the Project Manager!


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