Plugins

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Mac

Plugins

Postby MikeFromMesa » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:15 am

CaptureOne 12 has a plugins section in Preferences and I initially thought that this meant that I could use plugins from C1-12 but when I examined what the Preferences actually did all I saw was that it allowed me to specify what external apps I wanted to call from C1.

What am I missing? How is this any different from the external editors used in version 11? Is it different? Or is it just a different set of marketing names for the same functionality? Perhaps I am missing something basic here but it all just seems like version 11 external editors repackaged with a new name.

I do understand that C1 is involved in helping other companies develop specialized external functionality and that there are currently 4 such software packages listed as C1 "plugins", but my question is not about these custom packages but the list of regular editors listed as Plugins in the Preference dialog box.
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Re: Plugins

Postby fatihayoglu » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:27 am

TBH, I was expecting something like LR, where you can call external editors, adjust images in them, save back to CO and see the results, however I don't think this is what it was meant with Plug-ins for CO. I think it looks like a marketing name or gimmick
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Re: Plugins

Postby SFA » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:29 am

Mike,

What the developers have done is made it possible for other developers who create plugins to make plugins that work within Capture One more directly that they did before and with greater flexibility and functionality should they wish to offer it.

It is indeed somewhat similar to the provious Edit with and Open with functionality which is why those options have now been move to a more flexible (if adopted) Plug-in type connection to C1. In theory the existing options are just interfacing to C1 in a different way, technically, but still offering the same functionality as they did previously.

It is conceivable that more could be done should someone wish to commit the time and resources to the work. It will probably take a little while before anything much happens UNLESS some of the existing plugin creators feel there might be a good and rapid development of a business case for adapting what they have for use in C1 or even creating something new.

HTH.


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Re: Plugins

Postby SFA » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:36 am

fatihayoglu wrote:TBH, I was expecting something like LR, where you can call external editors, adjust images in them, save back to CO and see the results, however I don't think this is what it was meant with Plug-ins for CO. I think it looks like a marketing name or gimmick



That would work IF the external applications can generate changes that can be applied using C1 methods. In other words make use of the C1 engine in full or in part so that anything brought back into C1 can still be further edited as it is in C1.

At the moment most images would need to be 'flattened' from their external state as edited outside C1 before C1 could do anything else with it. PSD files are perhaps the most obvious examples. Hence the use of Tiff (or other formats) as intermediate files. (Not just in C1 either.)


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Re: Plugins

Postby NN635680879799322049UL » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:59 am

I have a question about a specific plugin for anyone with knowledge and experience with Helicon Focus stacking software.

The plugin (downloadable from the Capture One website) for Helicon Focus from HeliconSoft is said, according to Phase One, to offer a round trip "from the Helicon Focus stacking feature in the Phase One XF Camera System." Helicon sells a camera ring adapter to allow any camera to shoot a series of focal length images that can be stacked by its software.

Will the plugin work with any camera that works with the Helicon Focus software or does the plugin specifically allow only image focus stacks made with Phase One's XF system? If it works with other cameras, does Helicon return raw or uncompressed images so that the stacked image can be edited like a raw image?
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Re: Plugins

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:59 pm

NN635680879799322049UL wrote:(...)
Will the plugin work with any camera that works with the Helicon Focus software or does the plugin specifically allow only image focus stacks made with Phase One's XF system? If it works with other cameras, does Helicon return raw or uncompressed images so that the stacked image can be edited like a raw image?

The Helicon Focus plugin and software work with raws from any camera. You typically send a series of processed images to Helicon Focus and that program returns a single processed image back to Capture One.
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Re: Plugins

Postby MikeFromMesa » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:08 pm

Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
NN635680879799322049UL wrote:(...)
Will the plugin work with any camera that works with the Helicon Focus software or does the plugin specifically allow only image focus stacks made with Phase One's XF system? If it works with other cameras, does Helicon return raw or uncompressed images so that the stacked image can be edited like a raw image?

The Helicon Focus plugin and software work with raws from any camera. You typically send a series of processed images to Helicon Focus and that program returns a single processed image back to Capture One.


Forgive my ignorance, but I must be doing something wrong.

I opened Preferences -> Get More Plugins, downloaded the Helicon Focus plugin, opened Preferences again, pressed the "+" and added the plugin. Here is the screen shot showing the added plugin:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jbv4q0zcemiuy7q/PluginList.jpg?dl=0

I then opened a series of stacked raw photos I took with my Olympus E-M1.2 in CaptureOne, selected them and tried to send them to Helicon, but I did not see the Helicon entry in the Edit In list. I then exited CaptureOne thinking that perhaps the app needed to load the plugin upon startup, but it made no difference.

What am I missing?

NEVER MIND:

I thought that the "plugin" was a complete app like other plugins I have used, but apparently you need to have the plugin and the main application. I guess that the plugin is really just a software linkage from C1 to the main Helicon app rather than a complete app in itself. I am downloading that now and will see if that fixes the issue. My guess is that it will.
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Re: Plugins

Postby SFA » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:29 pm

Have you downloaded and installed the Helicon Focus application?
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Re: Plugins

Postby MikeFromMesa » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:41 pm

SFA wrote:Have you downloaded and installed the Helicon Focus application?


See the NEVER MIND section of the previous post. I am downloading it now. I just assumed that the plugin was a complete app in itself, but when I reread the Helicon webpage I realized that I was wrong.
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Re: Plugins

Postby MikeFromMesa » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:10 pm

If the HeliconFocus plugin is representative of the way plugins will work under CaptureOne I have to say that it does not seem to be as straight-forward as I thought it would be. I had installed the plugin first, thinking that it was a complete app in itself. When I realized it was not I went through the following steps to get it working:

1) Downloaded the HeliconFocus app,
2) Installed it
3) Tried to use it in C1. HeliconFocus did not show up as available in Edit In,
4) Exited C1 and restarted it,
5) Tried again to use it in C1. HeliconFocus did not show up as available in Edit In,
6) Removed the plugin in the Preferences panel,
7) Added the plugin again in the Preferences panel. Now the app showed up in Edit In.

However:

I sent a stacked group of images from C1 to HeliconFocus. I am unfamiliar with the app so I did not try to do any real adjusting, but just let the app do the default stacking. It, of course, did a wonderful job as you can see here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ey9cxhgyf5i220s/Stacked.jpg?dl=0

The only real problem I came across is that when I saved the image back to C1 it did not show up in the thumbnails. The file is in the same folder, but it does not appear in the C1 display. Under normal circumstances I understand why saving an image into a folder that C1 is working on does not mean that the image will show up. It is not in the catalog (or, I suppose, session) so it does not appear. But since this is a plugin to C1 I automatically assumed that the resulting stack would show up. Otherwise what is the reason for using the plugin rather than just the plain app?

Or am I missing something? I tried saving both compressed and uncompressed tiffs and a jpg. None showed up in C1.

ADDED:

An Activities window opened up in C1 telling me "Preparing to start - Less than a minute left" and showing me a progress bar. I assume this was supposed to be the reloading of the returned image, but the progress bar never filled in and after about 10 minutes it is still telling me that there is less than a minute left. I do wonder if the issue is with the interface definition from C1 or in HeliconFocus' implementation. I suppose I should file a bug report, but with who?

PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE:

It took about 15 minutes but the images finally got imported into C1. I guess I have to learn some patience.
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Re: Plugins

Postby SFA » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:08 pm

Mike,

It may be worth just running the files through Helicon focus directly to get some sort of impression of what is going on and how long things might take.

The plug-in is, after all, basically in interface to co-ordinate movement of files between the two applications which will each to their own stuff. The heavy work is for Helicon to deal with and of course how much work is involved is not always easy to assess just by looking at the files.

My suggestion would be to try with a few files - maybe 2 or 3 - to start with and then add a few more and run again. That should give you a good idea of what to expect.

But do it directly in Helicon.


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Re: Plugins

Postby MikeFromMesa » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:47 pm

Good advice. I will do that, but sometimes just playing around will cause the software to explain itself. In this case I found out, quite accidentally, that the stacked image will not quickly import into C1 unless you exit HeliconFocus.

In playing around I exited HeliconFocus and immediately the stacked output got imported into C1. That caused me to try related steps like closing the images, but only exiting HF seemed to force C1 to immediately import the image. I am not sure why, but I have tried with different stacked sets and as soon as HF closes C1 does the import. I assume HF keeps a lock on the output file and so C1 can not import it, but that is only a guess.

I have been using Affinity Photo to do stacking but Helicon seems like it does a better job. I guess software dedicated to only one task should probably be better at it than "jack of all trades" software. I will also compare it to Photoshop.
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