Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x

Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby fatihayoglu » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:55 am

Hi guys,
Does anybody have a direct comparison of these 2 cards for iMac? There is £400 price difference and I wonder if it worth the extra,
Cheers,
F
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby David S. » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:16 am

I’d love to know the answer to this myself - I was planning to update to a new 15” MacBook Pro in the next month or so, but part of me is thinking that for the same price, I can update my 2014 27” iMac

I was also wondering about the benefits of adding the extra £400 for the Radeon Vega 48 upgrade if I went down that route. Would be great to know the difference from a C1 perspective.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby Brian Jones » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:21 pm

Can't speak for those cards specifically, but I wish I would have sprung for the D700 in my mac pro back in 2013. $700 at the time. There is not easy way to upgrade. Especially with C1, the GPU will give your system very long legs. It's money well spent, but won't seem like it today.

My 2013 6-core D500 Mac Pro is 30% faster than my 2018 6-core I9 MacBook pro with a Radeon 580 eGPU attached. when processing files. 6 years is mighty long legs for a computer to still be relevant.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby Wesley » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:38 am

If you're working on a high pixel density display than the answer is always yes, get the better GPU.

iMac always had under speced GPU for its 5K display.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby UCS308 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:54 pm

Are you talking about internal graphic cards or using an eGPU (external GPU box). I am currently "testing" eGPU's and finding they help C1 quite a bit. As with all things C1 there are a few oddities that I'll detail in a note to Phase. But if you have a mac and you have a thunderbolt 3, or maybe 2 port an eGPU you might be a good way forward. FYI the Black Magic eGPU sanctioned by Apple does not seem to have the best results out there so if you plan on the eGPU route plan carefully.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby fatihayoglu » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:15 am

For internal GPU...
I was trying to avoid to have an external one
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby Wesley » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:30 am

Majority of iMac owners like keeping desk clutter to a minimum so an eGPU just doesn't go well with their ethos.

OP, you didn't say whether you were getting the i9 or i5 CPU. Get the i9 if it's between that or the Vega.

If you're not a volume shooter and don't export thousands of photos -> 580
Final Cut user -> 580
Premier user -> Vega
Gaming -> Vega
Cooler temps, less fan speed -> Vega
Overall snappiness -> Vega
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby fatihayoglu » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:50 am

I’d max CPU anyway, the question was around GPU, and looks like I should max out that one as well :j
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby Wesley » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:18 pm

fatihayoglu wrote:I’d max CPU anyway, the question was around GPU, and looks like I should max out that one as well :j

Vega 46 isn't a bad upgrade price but not good either. Situational :wink:

IMO, I'd wait for Navi if you're also video editing or gaming. AMD is making great strides in mid-tier GPU right now.
Once Navi GPU comes to iMac, it should be worth upgrading over Vega.

i9 and Vega seems good enough for Capture One though.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby HugoinParis » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Wesley wrote:Cooler temps, less fan speed -> Vega
Overall snappiness -> Vega

Hello

Could you elaborate on this point ? Have you tested it or would have a rationale for your opinion ?

I am also on the process of buying a iMac i9 1TB SSD with 64 GB memory, and was wondering wether or not to add the Vega 48 Card.
I am not at all in gaming, nor really in video editing, am more like a hobbyist photograph, so I was deciding to go the 580 route. However i am very sensitive to noise and would like to avoid it at (almost) any cost.
So far I have an old 2006 Mac Pro where there is almost no noise at all (being under the desk, and having an old PC flashed card, with SSD and 16 GB RAM)

You hint that the Vega was cooler but this review is quite worrying :
"All of this OC headroom is great on paper but in the real world the reference Vega 56 is far too noisy. Hair dryer levels of noise at stock clocks are unacceptable for most users"

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-RX-Vega-56-vs-AMD-RX-580/3938vs3923

Edit : sorry for that, the link is a reference about the noise in the Vega 56 (iMac Pro), not the Vega 48 (iMac 9i). However my question still stands.Thanks

Thanks for your answer.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby Wesley » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:25 am

HugoinParis wrote:
Wesley wrote:Cooler temps, less fan speed -> Vega
Overall snappiness -> Vega

Hello

Could you elaborate on this point ? Have you tested it or would have a rationale for your opinion ?

I am also on the process of buying a iMac i9 1TB SSD with 64 GB memory, and was wondering wether or not to add the Vega 48 Card.
I am not at all in gaming, nor really in video editing, am more like a hobbyist photograph, so I was deciding to go the 580 route. However i am very sensitive to noise and would like to avoid it at (almost) any cost.
So far I have an old 2006 Mac Pro where there is almost no noise at all (being under the desk, and having an old PC flashed card, with SSD and 16 GB RAM)

You hint that the Vega was cooler but this review is quite worrying :
"All of this OC headroom is great on paper but in the real world the reference Vega 56 is far too noisy. Hair dryer levels of noise at stock clocks are unacceptable for most users"

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-RX-Vega-56-vs-AMD-RX-580/3938vs3923

Edit : sorry for that, the link is a reference about the noise in the Vega 56 (iMac Pro), not the Vega 48 (iMac 9i). However my question still stands.Thanks

Thanks for your answer.

The userbenchmark.com link showing the two cards aren't for the iMac, those are traditional desktop cards. However all video cards in iMacs are cooled the same way as the Vega 56 in the link (blower style), hot air is exhausted out the back of the card or chassis in the iMac case. The RX 580 design exhaust the hot air in all directions so it only makes sense in a computer case that's not restricted with airflow. Blower style is louder by design and used in compact computers since the air gets sucked in, cools the video card, and gets exhausted right back out.

Anyways, if you are sensitive to noise than I would avoid the i9 iMac as I have read from owners that it sounds louder at idle than previous generation. So I would stick with your current Mac Pro until the regular iMac's cooling system get a overhaul or get the iMac Pro which is silent. I'm going to assume the 2019 Mac Pro will be dead silent.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby HugoinParis » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:47 pm

Anyways, if you are sensitive to noise than I would avoid the i9 iMac as I have read from owners that it sounds louder at idle than previous generation. So I would stick with your current Mac Pro until the regular iMac's cooling system get a overhaul or get the iMac Pro which is silent. I'm going to assume the 2019 Mac Pro will be dead silent.



Thanks for your answer.
Sticking with my Mac 2006 is not really an option as I managed through heavy tinkering to bring it to El Capitan where it is stuck now, which prevents me from using current software, such as Capture One 20, and others, and bring additional security breach. And I suppose also it is not as fast as current models :-)

In Europe where I leave, there is a substantial price tag between the iMac i9 that I could get in the configuration I want around 3900 € (with memory added separately), and the iMac pro (6000€, and not user-upgradable for memory), not to speak of the mac Pro that would with the screen get me to around 8000 €.
Sofar I'm not ready to pay 2100 € more if it is to avoid noise only a few minutes per day.

I prefer to go with the i9 route (vs i5) which is multi-threading (makes it faster), has a 5 GHZ potential boost and a Thermal Design Power of 95 W (as opposed to 65 W), which means that it could deliver higher processing power before heating and kicking the fan.
Speaking of the noise, since yesterday, I did see some complaints but there were rather linked to the Radeon 580 than to the Vega 46 (btw you were correct in stating that Vega are cooler), and due to heavy video editing, which I won't do on a regular basis. Actually, I did see a lot less complaint than for example for the iMac i7 from 2017. Seems that Apple learned their lesson there.
Regarding the noise when idle, this worries me, as indeed the fan seems to be always on at 1200 rpm, but you're the first I see mentioning this; have you any source that for ?

Coming back to the card, I am tempted to keep the Vega, which will currently add no real benefit to my usage, as far as I understand, but could maybe in the future if for example capture one is optimized that for, mainly for the reason of limiting fan usage. I have some feeling that for photography usage I would pay 500 € to cut the fan noise almost completely, while paying the 2000 € for the Mac Pro would cut only when I am heavy editing video, which I don't do.
In other words, I have the preconception (misconception ?) that Capture One will not be extra demanding for the GPU, expect for importing and exporting, and I can live with that.
I agree the choice is not very obvious, and I don't have all informations yet.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby Wesley » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:52 pm

HugoinParis wrote:
Anyways, if you are sensitive to noise than I would avoid the i9 iMac as I have read from owners that it sounds louder at idle than previous generation. So I would stick with your current Mac Pro until the regular iMac's cooling system get a overhaul or get the iMac Pro which is silent. I'm going to assume the 2019 Mac Pro will be dead silent.



Thanks for your answer.
Sticking with my Mac 2006 is not really an option as I managed through heavy tinkering to bring it to El Capitan where it is stuck now, which prevents me from using current software, such as Capture One 20, and others, and bring additional security breach. And I suppose also it is not as fast as current models :-)

In Europe where I leave, there is a substantial price tag between the iMac i9 that I could get in the configuration I want around 3900 € (with memory added separately), and the iMac pro (6000€, and not user-upgradable for memory), not to speak of the mac Pro that would with the screen get me to around 8000 €.
Sofar I'm not ready to pay 2100 € more if it is to avoid noise only a few minutes per day.

I prefer to go with the i9 route (vs i5) which is multi-threading (makes it faster), has a 5 GHZ potential boost and a Thermal Design Power of 95 W (as opposed to 65 W), which means that it could deliver higher processing power before heating and kicking the fan.
Speaking of the noise, since yesterday, I did see some complaints but there were rather linked to the Radeon 580 than to the Vega 46 (btw you were correct in stating that Vega are cooler), and due to heavy video editing, which I won't do on a regular basis. Actually, I did see a lot less complaint than for example for the iMac i7 from 2017. Seems that Apple learned their lesson there.
Regarding the noise when idle, this worries me, as indeed the fan seems to be always on at 1200 rpm, but you're the first I see mentioning this; have you any source that for ?

Coming back to the card, I am tempted to keep the Vega, which will currently add no real benefit to my usage, as far as I understand, but could maybe in the future if for example capture one is optimized that for, mainly for the reason of limiting fan usage. I have some feeling that for photography usage I would pay 500 € to cut the fan noise almost completely, while paying the 2000 € for the Mac Pro would cut only when I am heavy editing video, which I don't do.
In other words, I have the preconception (misconception ?) that Capture One will not be extra demanding for the GPU, expect for importing and exporting, and I can live with that.
I agree the choice is not very obvious, and I don't have all informations yet.

"1200 rpm is too loud." - https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1200-rpm-is-too-loud.2176357/

i9 Mac thermal test - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXIaSXU99-k

Disclaimer on Intel TDP for the i9, the rated watt is for all-cores at base GHz. It can't burst to 5GHz in an iMac.
For the i9 Mac specifically:
85W - 3.8GHz sustained all-cores
120W - 4.7GHz single-core burst

I suppose fan noise tolerance will be relative to what you have previously used. i9 iMac should be quieter coming from a 2017 iMac and louder coming from a Mac Pro. Best to hear it in person at a (quiet) store or friend's.
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Re: Vega 46 vs Radeon 580

Postby HugoinParis » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:42 am

That's bad news. Especially as after having spent 20 hours looking for info on the net, I cracked and ordered it yesterday !

We'll see...
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