Dear PhaseOne,

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 11.x for Mac

Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Wesley wrote:I'd rather have new camera models come out yearly and me paying an upgrade price if I had the previous two models but one can only hope.


You can do that.

Well, you can if you use a camera phone.

However,

I have had my smart phone for 3 years. Nothing wrong with it and it still does what it always has done, mostly. I don't use the camera much.

I paid something like £240 for it as I recall. The latest model (major change about every year, intermediate update in the middle of the period) would start at £450 for the equivalent device.

I noticed there is a trade-in scheme (it's not on contract) so, not expecting much, I checked what they would offer for a fully working undamaged device with charger, etc.

£20.

Not worth the effort of putting it in a bag and paying to return it.

I don't need a new phone as far as I can tell.

These days we don't really pay for the goods but the services and the utility that they provide. The goods are very short life expectation. They have to be. Global economics demands it. It's fashion as much as anything. Fashion and Product photographers are likely to be rather grateful that it works that way.


Grant
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby Edward51 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:27 pm

tenmangu81 wrote:Phase One has issued a new major upgrade every year in November-December from 2010:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_One


Yes very true, I knew it was coming soon.

I skipped v10 as my pro tech friends says its not really ready for heavy use and it seems that v11 is more of a v10.3 than anything else.
The increased upgrade price is very disappointing though - I've long felt that the yearly upgrade pricing at $99 was very inflated in the first place. As someone who doesn't use catalogs or Capture One adjustment layers the only thing I really need are camera profile updates.
If you look around places like Digital Transitions and Capture Integration usually offer $10 off upgrade pricing, at least they have for the last few years. I don't plan on updating until I get a Sony a7r3, I guess v9.3 won't support those files.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby J M T » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:30 pm

I agree, Phase One is a little fast on the trigger with the "major releases" of Capture One... but as long as there is a solid last update and i can jump a version and still get a upgrade rebate, i'm okay :)
Mac mini (Late 2012) 2,3 GHz Intel Core i7 Quad core / 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 / Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB / Apple cinema display 20" / Canon cameras and lenses / Capture One 10.2.1
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NNN635507439502082957 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:33 pm

Do you have Ambassador code for those who need to save $$$/EURO?

Emile wrote:While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:39 pm

NNN635507439502082957 wrote:Do you have Ambassador code for those who need to save $$$/EURO?



Try Google then pick your favourite option.

It would be unfair, probably, to promote one over another on the forum.

But there are a few who post here regularly.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NNN635507439502082957 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:14 pm

SFA do you have one? You should since you defend C1 all day and night.

SFA wrote:
NNN635507439502082957 wrote:Do you have Ambassador code for those who need to save $$$/EURO?



Try Google then pick your favourite option.

It would be unfair, probably, to promote one over another on the forum.

But there are a few who post here regularly.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:03 pm

NNN635507439502082957 wrote:SFA do you have one? You should since you defend C1 all day and night.

SFA wrote:
NNN635507439502082957 wrote:Do you have Ambassador code for those who need to save $$$/EURO?



Try Google then pick your favourite option.

It would be unfair, probably, to promote one over another on the forum.

But there are a few who post here regularly.


Nope.

I buy in the market just like everyone else.

When I think I have a problem with C1 I create a support case.

If I don't particularly like something I would do the same thing.

If I want some advice from other users about their experiences I'll use the forum.

I just don't see the benefit from forums that do little except foster endless complaints about often very specific subjects that will apply to a minority of users. Perhaps only one.

Forums have a natural tendency to be negative places. Sometimes it's justified, often not. They are great places for negativity to flourish and people who wish only to complain are naturally far more likely to post on them than those with a positive message to share.

Mostly I don't care what people post on forums but there are a few products that I particularly like and enjoy using and for which I am prepared to help other users where possible and provide, if I can, at least some antidote to those who mainly take a negative attitude. Especially if that particular negative attitude seems illogical and in my opinion.

There are, fortunately, a few other regulars who seem to adopt a similar approach.

It seems so much more productive to offer answer to a question about using the software with one or more ways the requirement might be approached than to respond with some sort of diatribe about C1 being unfit for purpose just because one person has an idea about how it should work but no one has listened to them for x years ... or something like that.

That thousands of other use the software and have done so for some time without making negative comments in the forum suggests that many, perhaps by far the most, feel it represents a good overall value proposition.

At the moment I tend to agree despite my other favourite raw converter/editor being freeware.

If at some point in the future that is not the case then I may change things. But that will be my decision based on my needs rather than trying to persuade Phase (or any other company come to that) to change their way of doing business for my benefit. How they operate is their choice and they progress or fail on the basis of their decisions, as we all do.

At least in this level of the computer applications market we still have the option to make such decisions. (So long as the major players in hardware, operating systems, databases and storage allow it.)


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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby tenmangu81 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:31 pm

+1
I completely agree with you, Grant.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NNN635507439502082957 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:01 pm

AMBGRANT,

Adobe had to lower their CC prices in 2013 due to australian parliament looking into price gouging. This would be great in 2017.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/2/12/3979 ... of-inquiry
http://www.afr.com/technology/enterpris ... 0212-ji8wb

"If at some point in the future that is not the case then I may change things. But that will be my decision based on my needs rather than trying to persuade Phase (or any other company come to that) to change their way of doing business for my benefit. How they operate is their choice and they progress or fail on the basis of their decisions, as we all do.

"At least in this level of the computer applications market we still have the option to make such decisions. (So long as the major players in hardware, operating systems, databases and storage allow it.)"

Yes, that is why I am voting with my $. Smile software did the same cash grab with Textexpander subscription and the backlash was so severe they had to give loyal users a lifetime discount on subscription. These companies do not have to "allow it" if we vote with our $.

https://smilesoftware.com/press/entry/s ... ander-apps


Grant[/quote]
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:39 pm

NNN635507439502082957 wrote:AMBGRANT,



Yes, that is why I am voting with my $. Smile software did the same cash grab with Textexpander subscription and the backlash was so severe they had to give loyal users a lifetime discount on subscription. These companies do not have to "allow it" if we vote with our $.

https://smilesoftware.com/press/entry/s ... ander-apps





Adobe are big enough and ubiquitous enough in a number of commercial markets to find alternative ways to gouge when they feel the need to. Not all are likely to be visible to politicians.

How has the backlash worked out for Smile and their products? (And why had I never heard of them before ...? (Rhetorical question.))

Is it too early to tell?

It's a genuine question. The balance of strategy between volume and revenue/profit margins is always a challenge worth observing.

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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NNN635507439502082957 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:43 pm

ambgrant,

"Adobe are big enough and ubiquitous enough in a number of commercial markets to find alternative ways to gouge when they feel the need to. Not all are likely to be visible to politicians."

--- Same can be said of Phase one -- from expensive upgrades to $46000+ cameras. P1 was the ANTI-ADOBE, running a mac vs pc type switch campaign and then doing what adobe did when people switched over. Except adobe subscription is a great deal instead of very expensive Cap 1 subscription at $180-240 a year.

"How has the backlash worked out for Smile and their products? (And why had I never heard of them before ...? (Rhetorical question.))"

-- if you haven't heard of smile you are missing out especially since they offer productivity apps on the mac. as i said, the backlash was bad enough they offered pre-exisiting license holders lifetime 50% off. Their ios app reviews are very negative because of the cash grab.

"Is it too early to tell?

It's a genuine question. The balance of strategy between volume and revenue/profit margins is always a challenge worth observing."

There are more and more options now for RAW converters and P1 is in danger of losing cusomters with shortsighted moves like this.

Grant[/quote]
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:16 pm

NNN635507439502082957 wrote:ambgrant,

"Adobe are big enough and ubiquitous enough in a number of commercial markets to find alternative ways to gouge when they feel the need to. Not all are likely to be visible to politicians."

--- Same can be said of Phase one -- from expensive upgrades to $46000+ cameras. P1 was the ANTI-ADOBE, running a mac vs pc type switch campaign and then doing what adobe did when people switched over. Except adobe subscription is a great deal instead of very expensive Cap 1 subscription at $180-240 a year.



I think Adobe are somewhat wider spread in their software applications, markets and dominance (often by purchasing competitor or potential competitor products in the early days) than Phase are.

As sales of "pure" cameras have fallen in recent years and the mobile device and its standards have come strongly into play for most people the marketplace may well be very different and Adobe have a wider range of products in more markets with which they can experiment with marketing mix and pricing. That was my point.

The Phase model is surely very different. As is the Canon business model and the Nikon business model. And very much different is the Sony business model.

Apple, despite some seeing it as the largest single seller of cameras, dropped its most professional oriented product in favour of the phone camera centric market. Not unreasonable given its mass in the hardware arena there.

Adobe can pump up new areas if one is falling away. The PDF concept gets them cheap marketing for their name and services - which one then pays for through the other products. That's business.

I think your analysis of the alleged "mac vs pc approach", as you call it, is wrong for a couple of reasons, one being that the P1 offer is not subscription only.

But be that as it may these matters are not really what this forum should be about in my opinion. It would be better to raise concerns directly through a Support Case. Strange perhaps but the Support Case seems to be the CRM system of choice for Phase and so is likely to be more influential than the forum for making points that people wish to make.


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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NN635680879799322049UL » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:22 am

Yes the upgrade is more expensive than the last one. So far this seems like a well put together upgrade that unlike version 10.0 does not act like a beta version. I have a 2008 Mac Pro with 16GB RAM and instead of taking 3.6 minutes to display my 56,000 images when I press ALL IMAGES, as it did in version 10.2, it now takes 39 seconds. Everything else is snappy. The new features are not trivial.

Assuming everyone knows how to find the discount code on a number of sites that are aimed at Capture One users, the price is actually 10% less. If you take this discount, an upgrade costs $9 per month over the next year or 30 cents a day. Compare that to the cost of walking into Starbucks.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby Eric Nepean » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:35 am

I'd be more inclined to buy the upgrade if Phase One would fix the issue that I raised in November 2016 (and several subsequent tickets) that Capture One misses displaying some of the lens Metadata for jpeg files from Panasonic cameras.
Cheers
Eric
(OSX 10.12, iMac and MacBook Air, Panasonic GX7,GM5,G5, Olympus E-M1)
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NNN635507439502082957 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:21 am

"I think your analysis of the alleged "mac vs pc approach", as you call it, is wrong for a couple of reasons, one being that the P1 offer is not subscription only."

- IT IS NOT SUBSCRIPTION ONLY for now. Based on P1 tactics I won't be suprised if they pull an Adobe and remove the purchase option which is a limited time option anyway: try running your purchased version of Capture One 3 on D850 and High Sierra. At least Adobe is not charging way more for subscription than P1 and they are making it not only convenient but very useful.

"But be that as it may these matters are not really what this forum should be about in my opinion. It would be better to raise concerns directly through a Support Case. Strange perhaps but the Support Case seems to be the CRM system of choice for Phase and so is likely to be more influential than the forum for making points that people wish to make."

- I once spent the whole day going back and forth with support trying to activate a new license. The email and password combination would not work. many methods were tried and unsuccessful until P1 stopped responding to my emails. Tried again next day and it worked. Turns out it was some issue on their server which support was unaware of.
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