Dear PhaseOne,

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 11.x for Mac

Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NN636271034717228928UL » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:34 pm

as I wrote elsewhere I came to you from LightRoom because I was disappointed with their move to a subscription model. In that course, I have created a new workflow, invested in books, time. The release today, together with the 30-day policy for existing buyers plus the pricing made me wonder why I abandoned LR.

I believe you have had a massive chance in attracting me and others. But I think you wanted to cash in on that quite too early. I am more than willing to pay for good software no problem with that. Companies, developers, QA people, they all have to earn money.

But this was too much, too early and in total, not a good outlook for the future.

I write this, as I asked support to close my account with PhaseOne. The invest I took into your product, I will write this off and move back to LR, even if I hate the subscription model to the bone.

Good luck.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby BPA » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:29 pm

Me too. With VAT it is two times the fee i pay on PS & LR. I like C1. It is faster than LR. The color tools are great. But I am not a pro and use it at school (doing media stuff with my students, shooting school events). So it is too expensive to me. The new competitors (ON1, Luminar) are still much too slow. They offer nice effects but are no real RAW-converters. After Shot is not bad but not very stable. DxO also got its strengths but also has some limitations.
So, hello Adobe. Again.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby VAD. » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:10 pm

In August this year I paid 301€ and now for upgrade another 142€ ? In the meantime I purchased one Style pack. I'm amateur, the software don't earn money for me; maybe you think that the price is adeqate for professionals, especially those using PhaseOne cameras, but not so for me and as I see also for others.
Why do you not release a lighter and cheaper version, for example without local adjustments? Definitevely this would help common peoples like me to live with Capture One upgrades and keeping your company to be competitive against the plethora of raw software newcomers.

I'm dont plan to cancel my account, but the frequent macOS upgrades will bring Capture One 10 to stop working and my investement of 360€ is blown in the wind.

Cheers
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby adrianchapman » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:22 pm

I have to say that I was also very disappointed by this massive price hike. I had, rather naively I suppose, hoped that given some of the discontent expressed about pricing in these forums in recent years that there might even be a modest price reduction for the upgrades.

I know it may not be necessary for any individual to upgrade every year but I don't think I can any longer justify my investment in Capture One so, with considerable regret, I will be investigating the numerous alternatives. While I accept that Capture One is sold very much as "Pro" software, and it does work some amazing magic on my pictures, the price difference between Capture One and alternative software packages is too much for me now and yes, I do understand the argument about the money we spend on cameras and lenses compared to the price of Capture One
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby Emile » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:27 pm

While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby NN636271034717228928UL » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:33 pm

Emile1 wrote:While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.


Well yes, it is not the 20 € per se but the - let me say - timing and arrogance of how PO does this. With this continuing, PO is a very expensive application to maintain (plus uncertainties) so it is better to control the risk. Plus, I do not want to support PO's philosophy.

Frankly I believe PO is gambling,
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby VAD. » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:00 pm

Emile1 wrote:While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.


Are you paid by PhaseOne?
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby Emile » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:03 pm

Yeah, I knew that was coming and no I am not. As I said, it's a free world :)
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby BPA » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 pm

Emile1 wrote:While I can understand your frustration, generally speaking, there are a few points to consider:

1. v10.2 is still a very capable and fast RAW converter and IMHO beats LR in most ways.

2. C1Pro has been on a yearly schedule of upgrading around this time for the past two years and there was no reason to believe otherwise this year; as a loyal C1 customer I'm happy with the advent of v11. You can always choose to skip a version.

3. The price hike is $20 over the previous price level. Are you really considering abandoning C1 and your $300+ investment over $20? To me that looks like an emotional reaction, not a rational one.

4. Everything gets more expensive over time. Phase One has had an upgrade price of $99 for quite a number of years. It's only logical the price will go up at one point. Adobe won't keep the price level of their photography package at $9.99 forever either and might even change it as of January 1. So what do you do then, switch back again?

I'd seriously look at this rationally. If you're unwilling to pay for an upgrade, stick with v10. Chances are good there's still a lot to learn and it will suffice for yet another year easily, at which point you could upgrade to v12. If you want to upgrade now, yes, it's another $119. Going back to Adobe will set you back the same amount for the coming 12 months. It's a free world, mostly, so up to you. I'd stay.


You are right. But what I don’t understand ist: I am paying 20€+4€ taxes per month. That is 288€ per year. So the subscription makes no sense at all. I buy for about 330€ and upgrade one year later for 140€ (with VAT). That’s 470€ in 2 years. While the subscription is 570€ in two years. And if I quit, I don’t own any license. I think, the subscription should be cheaper than buying the software (because you don’t own the software). Even if I take the prepaid version, this is getting more expensive in the third year, than buying and updating two times.
As I said, I like C1 and I was willing to continue my subscription for about the 14 bucks i pay now. But 24 is irrational for somebody doing this just for fun. I also would like to see a “personal” version (maybe without tethering, limiting the CPU cores on rendering). So, we will see.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby Emile » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:56 pm

BPA wrote:You are right. But what I don’t understand ist: I am paying 20€+4€ taxes per month. That is 288€ per year. So the subscription makes no sense at all. I buy for about 330€ and upgrade one year later for 140€ (with VAT). That’s 470€ in 2 years. While the subscription is 570€ in two years. And if I quit, I don’t own any license. I think, the subscription should be cheaper than buying the software (because you don’t own the software). Even if I take the prepaid version, this is getting more expensive in the third year, than buying and updating two times.
As I said, I like C1 and I was willing to continue my subscription for about the 14 bucks i pay now. But 24 is irrational for somebody doing this just for fun. I also would like to see a “personal” version (maybe without tethering, limiting the CPU cores on rendering). So, we will see.


I wasn't reacting specifically to you -or anyone for that matter- but more generally to the idea of abandoning C1 because of a $20/€20 price-hike for the upgrade ($99->$119). That said, I can't find the rationale behind the subscription price either. It's only viable as an extended trial, otherwise purchasing is cheaper.
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby SFA » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:26 pm

Emile1 wrote:
BPA wrote:You are right. But what I don’t understand ist: I am paying 20€+4€ taxes per month. That is 288€ per year. So the subscription makes no sense at all. I buy for about 330€ and upgrade one year later for 140€ (with VAT). That’s 470€ in 2 years. While the subscription is 570€ in two years. And if I quit, I don’t own any license. I think, the subscription should be cheaper than buying the software (because you don’t own the software). Even if I take the prepaid version, this is getting more expensive in the third year, than buying and updating two times.
As I said, I like C1 and I was willing to continue my subscription for about the 14 bucks i pay now. But 24 is irrational for somebody doing this just for fun. I also would like to see a “personal” version (maybe without tethering, limiting the CPU cores on rendering). So, we will see.


I wasn't reacting specifically to you -or anyone for that matter- but more generally to the idea of abandoning C1 because of a $20/€20 price-hike for the upgrade ($99->$119). That said, I can't find the rationale behind the subscription price either. It's only viable as an extended trial, otherwise purchasing is cheaper.


The subscription pricing offering has been discussed before and is really offered for people who have a short term need, have variable requirements over a period (i.e. may need to add or remove licences frequently) or simply want to spread cash flow (and would otherwise be paying for the money used to buy a licence using credit.)

I.e. it is intended to satisfy business use requirements mainly.

Other (usually large) software operations seem to think that subscription should be a way of life for everyone - along with the "cloud" model. Who knows if they are right?

Many people rent their mobile phones and as a reward are offered services that they are happy to pay for but rarely can use to the full extent that is offered. Few seem to object.

I guess it is mostly a question of perspective. (No pun intended.)


Grant
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby picman2 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:56 pm

The same here. On the 9th of October I purchased an upgrade to COv10 for 119 Euros, and now 7 weeks later I should pay another 149 Euros to upgrade to version 11. Where is the honesty in that!!
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby Chad Dahlquist » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:02 pm

I sub to adobe
I get PS a must have still and LR a option
for basically less than just a raw converter ?

if anything they should put the sub at say $5 - $7.50 and I would think many would join
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby SFA » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:14 pm

Chad Dahlquist wrote:I sub to adobe
I get PS a must have still and LR a option
for basically less than just a raw converter ?

if anything they should put the sub at say $5 - $7.50 and I would think many would join


Until there was nothing to join?
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Re: Dear PhaseOne,

Postby VAD. » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:30 pm

Emile1 wrote:As I said, it's a free world :)


Free of what?
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