BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape files.

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BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape files.

Postby betoalanis » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:11 am

This is a bug I found on 11.0.3. I tested in TIFF and PSD files, same bug appears.

1. First scenario, works as expected:

I have "LandscapePhoto.NEF" (width is bigger than height, meaning horizontal photo). I edit it on Capture One, I add layers, etc. I don't crop it. I select Edit In -> Photoshop, I then get a "LanscapePhoto.tif". I can copy ALL the settings from my NEF file, including layers, local masks, local adjustments, everything. This is a regular workflow if I want to save a handmade mask and reuse it later in the process. Works.

2. Second scenario, doesn't work as expected:

I have "PortraitPhoto.NEF" (height is bigger than width, meaning vertical photo). I edit it on Capture One, I add layers, etc. I don't crop it. I select Edit In -> Photoshop, I then get a PortraitPhoto.tif". I can copy all the settings from my NEF file, EXCEPT layers, local masks, local adjustments. A dialog saying "Cannot apply local mask" appears. This breaks my workflow since I can't copy settings from layers straight away and I can't reuse my layer masks.

3. Third Scenario, Proof that is a bug:

I have the original "PortraitPhoto.NEF" again, I rotate it 90°clockwise (which makes it a horizontal photo), I select Edit In -> Photoshop, I then get a "PortraitPhoto.tif" but the image is actually horizontal. I can copy ALL the settings from my NEF file, including layers, local masks, local adjustments, everything.

4. Fourth Scenario, Proof that is a bug v2:

I have the original "PortraitPhoto.NEF" again, I select Edit In -> Photoshop, I then get a "PortraitPhoto.tif". I can copy all the settings from my NEF file, EXCEPT layers, local masks, local adjustments. A dialog saying "Cannot apply local mask" appears.
I rotate the NEF 90°clockwise on Capture One, and I rotate 90°clockwise and save the TIFF on Photoshop. Now I can copy everything including layers and mask. If I rotate the TIFF back again in Photoshop, the file updates to a vertical file and I get the error again.


5. Fifth scenario, Proof that is a bug v3 and somewhat of a WORKAROUND for anyone else having this bug and wanting to copy layers and masks on vertical/portrait files:

I have the original "PortraitPhoto.NEF" again, I select Edit In -> Photoshop, I then get a "PortraitPhoto.tif". I can copy all the settings from my NEF file, EXCEPT layers, local masks, local adjustments. A dialog saying "Cannot apply local mask" appears.
I rotate the NEF 90°clockwise on Capture One, and I rotate 90°clockwise and save the TIFF on Photoshop. Now I can copy everything including layers and mask. I rotate the TIFF file back 90°counterclockwise on Capture One leaving me with a vertical file with the layers copied. The strangest part of this, and the definitive proof that is a bug is that in this scenario my NEF is vertical and my TIFF is horizontal at the time of copying the mask!

^This workaround is nowhere near ideal, since I'm doing a destructive transformation of the file on Photoshop, it could be a final step on the edition workflow and it wouldn't be a problem, but if I want to come back and edit the TIFF later, I have to rotate it again to work on it and rotate it back so it's horizontal, also, each time I save it vertical, Capture One will erase the layers and masks, and the settings I made, so it's just, not helpful at all.

Right now the closest ideal workflow is working on the horizontal file in Photoshop, rotating the view, so it looks vertical while you work. But in the finder and elsewhere all the TIFF files are going to be horizontal, which is bad.

My point is, I should be able to copy layers and local mask regardless of the file orientation.
betoalanis
 
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby SFA » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:11 pm

If you use a fill mask does that make any difference?

If your anchor point for the mask is in the centre of the image (and appears in all orientations and crops) does that make any difference?

I don't have Photoshop but attempting to replicate some of your examples with a tiff processed out of C1 does not suggest any problems. (Other than the masks are likely to be somewhat irrelevant for the portrait image content but at least they and the adjustments are applied.)


Grant
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby betoalanis » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:47 pm

SFA wrote:If you use a fill mask does that make any difference?


What I want to do is being able to copy the local mask from one file to another, I don't mind the settings, but the actual mask, so yeah it makes a difference,


SFA wrote:If your anchor point for the mask is in the centre of the image (and appears in all orientations and crops) does that make any difference?


It does not appear in all orientations, I can only copy in landscape file, regardless of the visual crop, so yeah, it makes a difference.


SFA wrote:I don't have Photoshop but attempting to replicate some of your examples with a tiff processed out of C1 does not suggest any problems. (Other than the masks are likely to be somewhat irrelevant for the portrait image content but at least they and the adjustments are applied.)


Are you saying that you are able to copy layers and local masks from a RAW file to a TIFF, both being vertical/portrait oriented? I couldn't, I get the same error of not being able to apply the local mask.

It's not irrelevant content, it's the outline of the mask I'm interested in keeping, it's a handdrawn selection.
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby SFA » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:51 pm

betoalanis wrote:
SFA wrote:If you use a fill mask does that make any difference?


What I want to do is being able to copy the local mask from one file to another, I don't mind the settings, but the actual mask, so yeah it makes a difference,


SFA wrote:If your anchor point for the mask is in the centre of the image (and appears in all orientations and crops) does that make any difference?


It does not appear in all orientations, I can only copy in landscape file, regardless of the visual crop, so yeah, it makes a difference.


SFA wrote:I don't have Photoshop but attempting to replicate some of your examples with a tiff processed out of C1 does not suggest any problems. (Other than the masks are likely to be somewhat irrelevant for the portrait image content but at least they and the adjustments are applied.)


Are you saying that you are able to copy layers and local masks from a RAW file to a TIFF, both being vertical/portrait oriented? I couldn't, I get the same error of not being able to apply the local mask.

It's not irrelevant content, it's the outline of the mask I'm interested in keeping, it's a handdrawn selection.


The point about using a fill mask was simply to check that the basic copy and paste would work. If not you would clearly have some sort of a problem with the installation on your system. So did you try it? If so did the mask copy over?

My second question was along similar lines to the first - trying to establish if there are any particular situations that mean the copy and paste works for the mask when it does work or are always absent when it does not work.


Yes I can copy and paste masks and adjustments from a RAW file to a TIFF when the TIFF is generated in Capture One AND when the tif is generated in Affinity Photo. The mask is probably not a lot of use when the orientation is different but it does work.

Perhaps there is some attribute of the type of tiff you are creating from Photoshop which makes a difference?

I would suggest you create a Support Case and get the Capture One support team's advice about this problem.


HTH.


Grant
SFA
 
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby betoalanis » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:58 am

SFA wrote:
The point about using a fill mask was simply to check that the basic copy and paste would work. If not you would clearly have some sort of a problem with the installation on your system. So did you try it? If so did the mask copy over?

My second question was along similar lines to the first - trying to establish if there are any particular situations that mean the copy and paste works for the mask when it does work or are always absent when it does not work.


Yes I can copy and paste masks and adjustments from a RAW file to a TIFF when the TIFF is generated in Capture One AND when the tif is generated in Affinity Photo. The mask is probably not a lot of use when the orientation is different but it does work.

Perhaps there is some attribute of the type of tiff you are creating from Photoshop which makes a difference?

I would suggest you create a Support Case and get the Capture One support team's advice about this problem.


HTH.


Grant



1- Made a simple fill layer, doesn't copy

2- Only thing I notice when it works and when it doesn't is:
— works in horizontal images and the TIFF file is created from an uncropped variant
— doesn't work on vertical images or on horizontal TIFF files that are created from a cropped variant


I tried changing settings, i tried exporting instead of "editing in", diffente variations of the workflow, and I keep getting the error. And since for now I'm the only one, I'm gonna do a reinstall, if it's still happening, I'll contact support.

Thanks for the help :)
betoalanis
 
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby betoalanis » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:13 am

SFA wrote:The point about using a fill mask was simply to check that the basic copy and paste would work. If not you would clearly have some sort of a problem with the installation on your system.


I borrowed a computer, installed the Capture One trial, didn't move any settings, I just created a session, imported a NEF file, exported it with the included recipe for TIFF, tried to copy local mask, got an error.

Can you try this steps for me, please? I can share any f my RAW files with you to test if you are still able to do it, that would mean something is odd with my RAW files (?)

1- Take a vertical picture of someone
2- load the RAW file into C1
3- create a new layer
4- paint around your subject on this new layer, you can make the rough outline and then select fill layer, so all your subject is painted over.
6- Make a tiff out of this file
7- try to copy layer form the RAW to the TIFF so you get the same mask of your subject

Can you confirm that this works on your installation?
betoalanis
 
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby SFA » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:12 pm

OK.

Previously you had, I think, mentioned external edits via PS (or whatever application might be available) so I found that creating TIFF or tif files in an external editor - cropped to Portrait mode or similar - produced files that would accept the layers complete with masks - at least in the brief tests I performed on some sample images.

Following the specific process you have outlined with a LANDSCAPE file the adjustments and masks are applied as expected and a .COMASK file is created for the TIF file.

However with a PORTRAIT file it seems that the COMASK file for the TIF is NOT created.

So it seems that under the circumstances of all processing being within C1 your findings are correct.

A portrait mode tif generated by an external editor, however, seems to accept the Layer masks and adjustments.

That said my External editor test files on Portrait orientation were crops from the Landscape original. If I get time later I will try the steps through an external editor starting with a Portrait orientation image.

I would suggest creating a Support Case immediately.

HTH.


Grant

ETA: I do NOT get any error messages when applying the masks copied via the Adjustments Clipboard. That seems a little different to your experience but then I am using a Windows system and for some reason the warnings do seem to be a little dampened down these days even though I have them all set to display - at least those that can be controlled through the Preferences.
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby betoalanis » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:01 pm

SFA wrote:However with a PORTRAIT file it seems that the COMASK file for the TIF is NOT created.

So it seems that under the circumstances of all processing being within C1 your findings are correct.

ETA: I do NOT get any error messages when applying the masks copied via the Adjustments Clipboard. That seems a little different to your experience but then I am using a Windows system and for some reason the warnings do seem to be a little dampened down these days even though I have them all set to display - at least those that can be controlled through the Preferences.


Ahh, it's so good to know I'm not the only one with this error and I'm not crazy. And you might also have found another bug, if it's not alerting you, you might assume the copy is working, while is not.

I'll be opening a case ASAP and I'll reference this, now I can proof I'm not the only one :D

Thanks again for your help, if you happen to find a temporary workaround please do share.
betoalanis
 
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Re: BUG: Local Adj & Layers only get copied in Landscape fil

Postby SFA » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:28 am

betoalanis wrote:
SFA wrote:However with a PORTRAIT file it seems that the COMASK file for the TIF is NOT created.

So it seems that under the circumstances of all processing being within C1 your findings are correct.

ETA: I do NOT get any error messages when applying the masks copied via the Adjustments Clipboard. That seems a little different to your experience but then I am using a Windows system and for some reason the warnings do seem to be a little dampened down these days even though I have them all set to display - at least those that can be controlled through the Preferences.


Ahh, it's so good to know I'm not the only one with this error and I'm not crazy. And you might also have found another bug, if it's not alerting you, you might assume the copy is working, while is not.

I'll be opening a case ASAP and I'll reference this, now I can proof I'm not the only one :D

Thanks again for your help, if you happen to find a temporary workaround please do share.


I don't normally create tiff files and would rarely need to copy masks if I did for any purpose I can think of in my work flow.

I might create a tiff occasionally if I was planning to use an external pixel editor application - like PS or Affinity - but I rarely do anything like that. Even if I did I don't think I could anticipate a need to process an image with layer adjustments in C1, export the results and do further editing in another application and then undertake even more edits with the same masks in C1. If more layer based adjustments were required in C1 I suspect I would think it more effective to create them fresh for the re-worked image.

That's not to say they don't have place in your work flow in the way you described ... I just don't see that place in my work flow.

As for the warnings or apparent lack of them - it's possible that there is no warning to offer as the problem has not been recognised.

The more general warnings are not something I am much concerned about these days. They probably work as intended and I would spend more time than would be sensible or useful trying to track down whether some activity might have been expected to produce a warning message that I did not see.

When you create the Support Case you can include a link to this thread if you think it will help.


HTH.


Grant
SFA
 
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