Sessions workflow

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 10.x

Sessions workflow

Postby MichaelCoffey » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:56 am

I keep NEFs in geographical folders as I locate photos easily this way (China, Malaysia, Indonesia, …). Since moving from Capture NX2 I also output a JPEG as this gives me a preview of edits on the Mac finder and Photo Mechanic 5. Capture One does not change JPEGs embedded in NEFs, nor would I expect it to.

My question is how to export cos files the right way when I incrementally add NEFs and jpeg pairs to my geographical folders. I move them from within the Capture One sessions library, from the sessions folder to a photo HD. I see that the Settings100 folders created in each geographical place folder get added to with Settings200, etc with additional COS files.

I want to keep a record of raw edits for future adjustments but would rather not work with sidecar files. Is this possible and am I transferring NEF/JPEG pairs the right way?
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby Tommy Weir » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:15 pm

This is how C1 works. As long as you use the application to move the files, corrections are moved along with the images when you move them from folder to folder. Sidecar files are part of using a referenced image based approach such as C1's sessions. There's no way, so far as I know of bundling the sidecar files data into the sessions database file.
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby MichaelCoffey » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:00 am

Thanks Tommy, it's good to know I am on the right track.

There is a way of exporting NEFs, namely as EIPs. I have hesitated doing this as with other bundles (I'm thinking SkimReader) I have had difficulty encrypting, backing up and generally transferring them. I want to keep the files open and simple, and down to a minimum (no sidecar files).

I would like to read other's workflows with sessions. In particular
-when to reference and when to import files into sessions
-the advantages of favouriting a session folder
-starting new session folders or keeping the same one indefinitely, moving files in with PhotoMechanic5 or Finder.
-do sidecar files have any inherent advantage over using embedded metadata? (Auto Sync sidecar XMP: none; TICK Prefer embedded XMP over Embedded IPTC; NOT TICK Prefer Sidecar XMP over Embedded Metadata)

The 3-part FujiExperts blog entries on Sessions is good but there's just so many options around file handling that they didn't address the questions I have above.
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby OddS » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:34 pm

No responses, I'll give it a shot despite my ultra-simple usage pattern
NNN635977014954970140 wrote:-when to reference and when to import files into sessions

If "reference" means to use a so called dummy session, I have no answer as I do not use that approach.

NNN635977014954970140 wrote:-the advantages of favouriting a session folder

To me: simpler/quicker access compared to navigating system folders in Capture One.

NNN635977014954970140 wrote:-starting new session folders or keeping the same one indefinitely, moving files in with PhotoMechanic5 or Finder.


I organize sessions by month. My current session is 2017-01, the next will be 2017-02 etc.
I use Photo Mechanic to ingest image files to image folders located in/below a session's Capture folder. It does not matter if image folders are created by Capture One or by Photo Mechanic.

In fact, Photo Mechanic created a folder 2017, a sub folder 2017-01, a sub-sub folder Capture and a sub-sub-sub image folder 2017-01-02_Repro when I did my very first ingest this year. Folder 2017-01 wasn't a session folder from start. The folder 2017/2017-01/Capture indeed looks like (part of) a session, but Photo Mechanic creates folders, not sessions. After ingesting image files to 2017/2017-01/Capture/2017-01-02_Repro, I culled, ranked, added color tag, title, description, keywords etc. using Photo Mechanic. (That is indeed Photo Mechanic territory deluxe.)

Then I used Capture One File->New Session, typed 2017-01 in the Name field and adjusted the top folder name from 2016 to 2017 (all monthly sessions live inside a year folder). Next I added the already existing (from Photo Mechanic) folder 2017/2017-01/Capture/2017-01-02_Repro to the Session Favorites, and I was good to go. Creating the new session in Capture One, naturally, added Capture sibling folders (Selects, Output and Trash) in the session folder 2017/2017-01 as well as created the session database file 2017-01.cosessiondb.

My most recent image folder is 2017/2017-01/Capture/2017-01-22_Dalane, the last element was created by Photo Mechanic at time of ingest, higher level folders already existed from the first ingest. Next up was culling, ranking, keywording,... (yes, I always use Photo Mechanic for this). Then, in Capture One, I added folder 2017/2017-01/Capture/2017-01-22_Dalane to Session Favorites, visited that favorite folder and got on doing Capture One stuff.

NNN635977014954970140 wrote:-do sidecar files have any inherent advantage over using embedded metadata?

Capture One doesn't modify raw files, embedding is not an option. If you want Capture One to exchange metadata with other applications, like Photo Mechanic or Lightroom, you need XML-files. However: Capture One appears to read embedded metadata once, when the image file is first seen.

If I understand you correctly, you do not want XML-files at all. I believe I can get that by not creating XML files in the first place by disabling "Always create and/or update XMP sidecar file" in Photo Mechanic. I also need to make sure Capture One's Auto Sync sidecar XMP is set to "None" and I must never ever use the Reload Metadata or Sync Metadata functions in Capture One. Otherwise Capture One will create a XML-file.

I do indeed use XMP files, they allow Capture One, Photo Mechanic and Lightroom to exchange metadata.
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby mkphotomedia » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:51 pm

I do one session per job. Start the session onsite if I'm tethered, or start a session back in the office when I'm importing images into it. Then every so often (it's been annually for me for the last while), import all the sessions into a catalogue with linked (not embedded) files so I can more easily search through the year's images, should a client ask. (Now, having said that, I haven't actually done that this year or last because CO9 had issues importing LCC files into a catalog and applying them properly, and I shoot with a tech cam where not having LCC support on your final images is killer; CO10 seems to have fixed this issue).

If you're doing a pre-ingest and sort with Photo Mechanic, or something like that, then you want to be dumping the files into the Capture folder (tree) of a new session.
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby MichaelCoffey » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:08 am

mkphotomedia: I see now the value of linking photos - ie when you want to reference them in catalogues while at the same time saving computer space.

OddS:Thanks for answering the other questions I had regarding how Capture One and Photo Mechanic interact. I imported new photos this morning and copying your method for ingesting, tagging and editing photos. This is all becoming a lot clearer to me now.

My 2-month old Capture Session built up plenty of cruft - 1.5GBs of old data, so deleting it on a monthly basis makes sense to me now.

You are right in saying that rank, colour-tag, title, description, keywords etc are all read by Capture One the first time it reads the photos. I wonder what metadata you’d need to push back to PM when you edit with Capture One?

While I like keeping things simple I am wondering how you use xml sidecar files in your workflow. However, I think I'll take another month to work out the roles "Reload Metadata" and "Sync Metadata" play in Capture One. And that may be the subject of another post...
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby OddS » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:31 pm

MichaelCoffey wrote:I wonder what metadata you’d need to push back to PM when you edit with Capture One?

While I like keeping things simple I am wondering how you use xml sidecar files in your workflow.


The XMLs don't bug me much. I maintain metadata in Photo Mechanic. If I change things in PM, I use Reload Metadata to tell Capture One to pick up the changes. I very very seldom fiddle with metadata in C1, but if I do, I use Sync Metadata to update the XML, and PM usually picks up the new info from the XML-file on next visit. I usually have PM and C1 open at the same time. For me, XML-files are just a mailbox or pigeonhole for passing metadata between applications.
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby MichaelCoffey » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:34 am

:idea: Thanks for mentoring me in grand style with this dual programme workflow for images Odd S! :D
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby RedRobin » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:07 am

Tommy Weir wrote:This is how C1 works. As long as you use the application to move the files, corrections are moved along with the images when you move them from folder to folder. Sidecar files are part of using a referenced image based approach such as C1's sessions. There's no way, so far as I know of bundling the sidecar files data into the sessions database file.


....I have just started using FastRawViewer to examine and cull imported RAW files from my camera. My question is about Metadata XMP Sidecar files.

My typical workflow, always Sessions, is to...
>>> Import my RAW files from camera into FastRawViewer (FRV) on my MacBook Pro* (which does not have C1 installed)
>>> Cull and colour and star rate the potential keepers in FRV
>>> Export from FRV to a dedicated desktop folder (named 'For Processing')
>>> Transfer that folder to my iMac workstation (my MacBook Pro and iMac are intentionally independent and not networked)
>>> Open Capture One (C1) to Import files from the dedicated folder on the desktop
>>> Process my RAW files in C1

*When not out in the field with a client, I can Import my RAW files directly from my camera to FRV on my iMac instead of via my laptop. But it's the same software workflow.

No doubt due to my Preference settings in FRV (which are very extensive and at this early stage are beyond my full understanding), I can further control XMP Sidecar generation? < A question for FRV I think.

I have a couple of related questions....

1) - My resulting folder 'For Processing' has lots of XMP Sidecar(?) files - Can I delete them as clutter? I do want the basic camera settings and date etc (Metadata?) to be carried forward and not lose that info.

2) - Can I delete ALL the contents of the 'For Processing' folder (CR2 and XMP files) after processing or will I lose the original CR2 flies although imported into C1?

I presume that by changing my C1 Preferences > Image > Auto Sync Sidecar XMP to 'None', it will stop all the extra Sidecars being generated. I had 'Full Sync' set earlier when I imported from the 'For Processing' folder.

Thanks for any help :)
Robin Procter - Amateur Wildlife Photographer - https://www.flickr.com/photos/114775606@N07/
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby OddS » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:58 pm

RedRobin wrote:1) - My resulting folder 'For Processing' has lots of XMP Sidecar(?) files - Can I delete them as clutter? I do want the basic camera settings and date etc (Metadata?) to be carried forward and not lose that info.


What happens if you just change the filename of a sidecar, say from DSC_1234.xmp to DSC_1234.xyz or some such. If a new file DSC_1234.xmp is created, you need to find out what application to blame. As far as I can tell, my Capture One does not create XMP sidecar files if I:

a) have Auto Sync sidecar XMP set to None (Edit->Preferences->Image)
b) do not use the Metadata tool's Reload Metadata
c) do not use the Metadata tool's Sync Metadata

If the renamed sidecar does not cause any unwanted effect, you can try to just move them to a separate folder and observe your image folder for a couple of weeks while you work on the images. Check if XMP-files are recreated.


RedRobin wrote:2) - Can I delete ALL the contents of the 'For Processing' folder (CR2 and XMP files) after processing or will I lose the original CR2 flies although imported into C1?


"Import" is one of those words that do not mean the same to all people, not even in the narrow context of getting an image file to a location where it can be post processed using Capture One, Lightroom or other software.

Import may mean to copy an image file from a memory card to a computer disk.
Import may mean to copy an image file from one location ("folder") on a disk to a different location on the same disk.
Import may mean to copy an image file from one location ("folder") on a disk to a different location on a different disk.
Import may mean to register the image file name in a database, often with some metadata added (no file copying).
Import may mean to copy image files from one location to another and register filename (+metadata) in a database.
Import may mean to copy the image file content into a database and register the filename (+metadata) with it, possibly deleting the file from disk after storing the content in the database.

(and I probably forgot to mention some image file import variants)

The ambiguity may confuse a user with respect to the location of an image file beeing post processed. This causes uncertainty whether a file can be deleted by use of a disk tool of some sort. My advice would be to learn and fully understand your "import". When you know for sure where your Capture One image files are located, you also know for sure what files you can NOT delete without side effects in Capture One.
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Re: Sessions workflow

Postby NN636815005905905645UL » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:28 am

I also need to make sure Capture One's Auto Sync sidecar XMP is set to "None" and I must never ever use the Reload Metadata or Sync Metadata functions in Capture One
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