Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 10.x

Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby col_du_aspin » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:12 am

dredlew wrote:My TIFF files are up to the 4GB limit and yes, it's insanely slow clicking from one to the next. It's been existent for a long time but P1 doesn't get it. It seems like C1 tries to read the whole TIFF file with all its layered contents to create a preview, when it only needs to read the already existing embedded JPG preview. It's pretty crazy. Aperture and LR don't even blink for the same process.


I completely forgot about the embedded JPEG file inside the TIFF file. I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that C1 is attempting to read the entire TIFF file.

Just for fun I downloaded DXO and loaded my most recent project from C1 into it and it breezes through my 2.5GB TIFF files. It was unbelievable!!!! There was almost no lag transiting between NEF or TIFF files. The only thing keeping me on C1 is tethering and the highlights & shadow recovery.

In a way I am happy and disappointed at the same time about the lack of performance of C1 on a highly performance computer PC or Mac Pro.

If PhaseOne is using the FreeImage library then there is a function that allows you to read the Thumbnail from a TIFF file.

PhaseOne get your act together!!! Doesn't this issue pop up in your software tests for performance ? I wonder what your software testing methodology is like if these issue has regressed through version 9 and 10 or perhaps even earlier.
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:04 am

dredlew wrote:
My TIFF files are up to the 4GB limit and yes, it's insanely slow clicking from one to the next. It's been existent for a long time but P1 doesn't get it. It seems like C1 tries to read the whole TIFF file with all its layered contents to create a preview, when it only needs to read the already existing embedded JPG preview. It's pretty crazy. Aperture and LR don't even blink for the same process.



out of interest, what happens of you disable TIFF editing in Preferences?

Does C1 ignore the TIFF files completely or does it display the thumbnails but make them read only?

If C1 has already processed its own thumbnail for the TIFF (as an enabled editor of TIFF files) and now has a version of its own processing of the file, are things any quicker?

My thinking is that if TIFFs are enabled for edit then C1 will expect to process them, including previews and thumbnails and everything else since that is what it is set up to do - not just display a rendition from some other application.

Since TIFF files are rarely part of my work flow and then usually only scanned files, I'm not sure how a huge external TIFF already processed in another application can be usefully brought back into C1.

If it is simply for DAM purposes it would seem that the consensus is that DAM on the Catalog could be improved compared to other applications so there is no obvious benefit from bringing the file into C1 at all if all that will happen is slow performance.

I must be missing something in the logic. Who can enlighten me?

Finally, and I may misremember this, when I process any of my scanned tiff files in other software the memory usage is, for an 8-bit file, 8 times the file size.

However the biggest files are only about 160Mb.

If you have 4GB files and the same effect occurs (worse with 16bit Tiff?) the result will be a huge working file.

Is that what happens with C1?



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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby peter.f » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:08 am

On sessions, C1's update process copies you 9.3 session database file before it upgrades it, and renames the backup copy, I believe by appending some text to it. The result is that the extension is changed and is no longer recognized by C1 ("my session.cosessiondb" becomes "my session.cosessiondb backup" or so; not at my computer to can't check).

You can move the upgraded database file out of the way (or rename or delete it) and rename the back up copy to its original name. C1 9.3 should then be able to open it again.

The same applies to catalogs. However, on a mac the actual database file is inside the "catalog file" that you see in the Finder. That "file" is not an actual file but a folder, disguised by the Finder as a single file (called a package). To open that file/folder/package, control-click (right-click) on the "file" and select "Show Package Contents". You can now see the contents of the catalog package. You should now be able to go back to your 9.3 version as described above.

HTH,
Peter.
X-T1, X100S; MBP 15" 2010, 8GB, OSX 10.11.4; Catalog on SSD, ref'd images on external USB2.
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby Neonsquare » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:45 pm

Browsing through TIFF was already slow on CO 9. It now seems that with CO 10 - trying to zoom into a TIFF file leads to a complete hang for several minutes on a MacBook Pro Retina i7 with 16GB RAM. Working directly from the internal SSD. The computer doesn't seem to have high load though so I really don't understand why CO 10 hangs that long. This bug makes CO 10 nearly unusable for me. I really have to check first if something is a TIFF file and then not zooming in because the program will again hang for several minutes.
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby col_du_aspin » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:19 pm

SFA wrote:out of interest, what happens of you disable TIFF editing in Preferences?

Does C1 ignore the TIFF files completely or does it display the thumbnails but make them read only?

If C1 has already processed its own thumbnail for the TIFF (as an enabled editor of TIFF files) and now has a version of its own processing of the file, are things any quicker?


I tried this out over the weekend. Essentially it still displays the thumbnail of the tiff file however, making further edits via C1 is not allowed. It makes no difference to the time taken to make a transition from TIFF to NEF or vice versa if TIFF editing is enabled or disabled.

Funny thing happened though, when I had initially disabled it and started jumping around to various TIFF files, the transition time was very quick, as in a second then after half a dozen clicks it went back to the usual 10 to 15 second wait.

I'm entirely not sure what was happening within the application.

I have to say I am annoyed as hell that Phase One will let a performance defect like this regress over from versions (i.e 9 to 10).
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby Triumph Steve » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:12 am

col_du_aspin wrote:
SFA wrote:out of interest, what happens of you disable TIFF editing in Preferences?

Does C1 ignore the TIFF files completely or does it display the thumbnails but make them read only?

If C1 has already processed its own thumbnail for the TIFF (as an enabled editor of TIFF files) and now has a version of its own processing of the file, are things any quicker?


I tried this out over the weekend. Essentially it still displays the thumbnail of the tiff file however, making further edits via C1 is not allowed. It makes no difference to the time taken to make a transition from TIFF to NEF or vice versa if TIFF editing is enabled or disabled.

Funny thing happened though, when I had initially disabled it and started jumping around to various TIFF files, the transition time was very quick, as in a second then after half a dozen clicks it went back to the usual 10 to 15 second wait.

I'm entirely not sure what was happening within the application.

I have to say I am annoyed as hell that Phase One will let a performance defect like this regress over from versions (i.e 9 to 10).



I agree. Pro version 10 runs too slow for me and my iMac (now with 24 GB of memory) still runs slow and locks up. I never had that problem with Pro version 9.3 Therefore, how can I justify paying a $99 upgrade fee to get the new version Pro 10 when this slow action is ruining the use of Capture One? This issue will probably wither drive me to a competitor, or, keep me working with Pro 9.3
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby Lorenzen » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:03 am

Slow that is not the word!!! more like going back in time
i took about 30 photos with a very dirty lens may bad
hanging over the side off a boat take water sports so water sprays and so
no problem i ca just do spot cleaning........ i have done this in the past many times and CO9 worked okay
now with only 30 photos spot cleanse :D it take forever to go thru the photos
i will see if i cant go back to 9.3 instead
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby Mark BCN » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:07 am

Neonsquare wrote:Browsing through TIFF was already slow on CO 9. It now seems that with CO 10 - trying to zoom into a TIFF file leads to a complete hang for several minutes on a MacBook Pro Retina i7 with 16GB RAM. Working directly from the internal SSD. The computer doesn't seem to have high load though so I really don't understand why CO 10 hangs that long. This bug makes CO 10 nearly unusable for me. I really have to check first if something is a TIFF file and then not zooming in because the program will again hang for several minutes.


I have had the same problem (and reported it some time ago - complete with a process sampler dump...). The hang is literally several minutes and occurs on things such as viewing, zooming or panning the image.

As far as I know the only way to avoid this is to ensure that your TIFF files do not contain any layers - even a simple contrast or levels adjustment layer is enough to cause the problem.

I am pretty disappointed with the performance improvements in CO10 on my laptop. Yes, it is *slightly* faster than CO9, but Lightroom on the same hardware completely blows it away for trivial edits such as exposure or contrast.
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby alececco » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:12 am

Triumph Steve wrote:
dredlew wrote:
Triumph Steve wrote:My unfortunate experience this week, in updating from Pro 9.3 tot he trial version of Pro 10, is total disaster that tech support has not resolved for me. I am locked out of my catalog of images made with Pro 9.3 and cannot even open 9.3, while Pro 1o runs so slow that it locks up my computer. Very bad experience.


Um, why would you expect a v10 catalog to open in v9.3? Once you upgrade, you're on v10 and you can't go back to v9.3 unless you have a backup. Although, it doesn't seem like you have one, otherwise you would still be working in v9.3 without issues if v10 was not for you. I suggest you look into backup strategies and why they are important. Just a guess, but without a backup, support will be unable to help you.

As for opening v9.3, yes you can. Open it while having the option/alt-key pressed until the catalog selection screen appears. Create a new catalog from there and it's back up and running. Re-import all RAW files again. Of course, all edits are gone but that's what the backup would have been for. So you will have to start over, with a backup this time (hopefully).




What is the logic of owning a paid copy of Pro 9.3, trying out the trial Pro 10, having to accept the trial's requirement to upgrade the catalog to the new version 10, and then be unable to get back into your preferred 9.3 program because you somehow got locked out of it due tot he catalog upgrade to 10? That is my current problem, and I did have a catalog backup of 9.3

I am still working on a solution.


In all fairness, it l warns you before you upgrade the catalog.I usually make a copy of the catalog, and if i forget there is always the back up. There are a number of reasons why new catalogs are created. You want more stable catalogs? you want them speedier ? well then.... the structure changes with every version. Stop whining...
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby Triumph Steve » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:53 am

Tech support advised me to turn off "OpenCl" options, and also to do this: "In addition to disabling openCL there is another item you can try which is to delete this folder: Hard Drive (your hard drive name) > Users > Shared > Capture One > Image Core."

Speed of Pro 10 on my computer seems to be running better.
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby tenmangu81 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:42 am

Thanks Steve. Didn't work for me : Image Core is recreated at the first launch of C1. And it doesn't speed the process of displaying "All images" (30 seconds for 17,000 images with v10, 5 seconds with v9). I am waiting for their answer.....
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby chipbutty » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:47 pm

I hate to be the voice of gloom but this is my story with C1. I decided to move to C1 from Lightroom a few years ago. I loved the results from C1P8 and the UI. After months and months of struggling with endless bugs and annoyances I finally gave up in frustration and went back to Lightroom. I tried C1P9 when it came out and nothing had improved. I went to back to Lightroom and never looked back since. Lightroom gives me rock solid stability.

I now have a shiny new top of the range iMac and decided to take a look at C1P10. Initial impressions aren't favourable. It feels like the GPU isn't even being used even though I've enabled it in the settings. Rendering is very slow when moving sliders. That alone is enough to make me not use it.

With C1 I found that bugs were rarely ironed out from one update to the next. The next major release would start the whole process rolling again! If only they could concentrate on making the software stable and improve the performance. But they never seem to.

In terms of performance I think C1 is probably best used on a Windows machine where you can use a much better performing GPU than is available on an iMac.

NNN636156073736100359 wrote:I actually pay a monthly subscription to a full adobe cloud CC, and coming from a many years LR workflow.
I tried CO9 few days ago and loved it. When CO10 was announced I took the annual subscription and moved my LR catalog to CO10. I can't imagine now, making a huge step backward because of a bug.

The problem is (and we're so many here to tell and prove it) CO10 can't do a simple work while we're paying for it.
I mean it could be a bug with tethering with certain camera under certain circumstances...ok PHASE ONE has to fix it but it's not a priority for them. I mean it's not the top list of the bugs to fix...but there, it means that if you plan to make adjustments to your photos, you're stuck in CO10 otherwise if you export in PS you're have to flatten your layers!!! it's a pure nonsense! As I wrote it before, layers have been created to allow the photographer to keep working on non-destructive files whenever he wants.
I sent them a big message via the support console and sent them a screen capture to show them the problem but I really guess they already reproduce the bug at the headquarters.
I'm sorry to say it but it's prohibitive to any photographer's workflow so if they don't fix it, (as I can't use it) we'll have to find a solution for a refund.
But let's stay positive ;-)
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby SFA » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:47 pm

chipbutty wrote:
In terms of performance I think C1 is probably best used on a Windows machine where you can use a much better performing GPU than is available on an iMac.



Hmm.

There do seem to be fewer problems reported about slowness on PCs - but then I suspect that the majority of C1 users probably committed to the Apple path years ago.

Moreover from comments some time back I understood that Phase manly use Macs for development.

I'm a Windows user and I don't use catalogues so I am hardly representative of those with performance problems. Additionally the files I am working with are not large by current standards. However when I test with large RAW files from recently released cameras I don't notice any large deterioration of performance in terms of response speed.

I fully appreciate that is a very subjective statement.

My PC is a 4 years old Dell notebook with a lowly GPU that just about gets past the C1 "is it worth using this card" test. That said I really don't think having the GPU active or inactive makes an obvious difference to performance on this machine no matter whether I am only using GPU process friendly adjustments.

CPU is a mobile market targeted i7 3820. Nothing special by today's standards.

I'm running SSDs and 24GB RAM but 16GB would be adequate. I typically have several other applications running at the same time. Firefox will often be using as much memory as C1. I expect applications to use as mush memory as they feel they need. If they don't I have wasted my money on what is installed.

On that basis I suspect that the source of the challenges some of you are facing might be more complex and more deeply hidden than we might expect. That would be one possible explanation for some having torrid experiences but others saying they are very happy with the performance and responsiveness they are seeing.

Another thing that puzzles me is how people who think that C1 is slow often mention that other applications, LR for example, is fast on their machines. Meanwhile some commenter make exactly the opposite observation.

How can that be?


Confused.



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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby Neonsquare » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:35 pm

Some further points:

I've opened a session from some time ago and it also did show this very slow Behavior on e.g. Zoom. I then realized that most of the photos still are using Engine 9 and some people mentioned that the speed up would be related to the engine used - which makes sense. I batch updated all photos to Engine 10 and after that the performance was incredible good. Zoom was nearly instant, definitely no beach balls. I felt a bit dumb about this and planned to report that to Phase One as result for my bug report. But! The next day - I opened the same session fresh and it was dead slow again! Another thing that reproducible happens is a crash report window coming up after I exit the Programm.

I've now made process logs, a screen capture and the Log of the crashreport. And will send that to PhaseOne.
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Re: Slow performance on CO 9 and CO 10

Postby SFA » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:36 pm

Neonsquare wrote:Some further points:

I've opened a session from some time ago and it also did show this very slow Behavior on e.g. Zoom. I then realized that most of the photos still are using Engine 9 and some people mentioned that the speed up would be related to the engine used - which makes sense. I batch updated all photos to Engine 10 and after that the performance was incredible good. Zoom was nearly instant, definitely no beach balls. I felt a bit dumb about this and planned to report that to Phase One as result for my bug report. But! The next day - I opened the same session fresh and it was dead slow again! Another thing that reproducible happens is a crash report window coming up after I exit the Programm.

I've now made process logs, a screen capture and the Log of the crashreport. And will send that to PhaseOne.


This sound rather like some matter of creating or adjusting Preview files on first opening of the application.

Once you have done that and the application is still open the files are likely to be available and in memory (or at least indexed for real time use.)

Close the application and that information will be cleared by the system.

Reopen the session and the cached previews are perhaps not updated so the process is being repeated, possibly?

If so all I can say is that I am not seeing that sort of activity on my system so it is not an inherent part of the process design.

HTH.


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