New user - C1 glitches/issues

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 9.x

New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby russkny » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:18 am

Hi all,

I'm a fairly new C1 user, have been using it for several weeks, switching from Lightroom. I love the software so far, but encountered a few glitches/bugs that I was hoping to get some help with.

While viewing photos at 100%, when I click on the name of any particular adjustment to temporarily reset it (eg. Brightness, Clarity, Contrast, etc.), the preview becomes (and remains) blurry and does not re-render.

Even when option-clicking the Local Reset button (or performing undo), the preview does not immediately revert to the pre-adjustment state, instead, the preview temporarily becomes blurry and then the pre-adjustment state is displayed. This makes it extremely difficult to compare certain subtle changes (white balance, clarity, brightness, sharpness) because the "blurry state" is long enough for my eyes to adjust to it.

The same issue also occurs when making any adjustments (exposure, brightness, curves) while zoomed in to 100% - the preview remains blurry when moving a slider or dragging a curve point. Is there a fix for this? Is this normal behavior?

I am also noticing that using Rotation tool is very sluggish and not fluid at all. Undoing a rotation adjustment takes about a full second to complete.

In Lightroom, resetting or turning off an adjustment is instantaneous, and if the preview is being re-rendered, it's imperceivable. The preview also remains crystal clear/sharp while making any adjustments at 100%. Rotation/Cropping tool is very fluid and responsive.

OpenCL on/off in C1 does not alleviate the issue. My preview size is set to 1440. I'm running C1 9.3.0.69 on a MacPro (Mid-2010), 3.46 GHz 6-Core, OS X 10.11.6, 16GB RAM, PCIe SSD, Radeon HD 5770. 24" inch monitor, 1920x1200. Catalog is stored on the SSD drive, while CR2 raw images are on internal non-SSD drive.

Many thanks in advance!

Regards,
Russ
Last edited by russkny on Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby John Doe » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:59 am

As a starting point, set your preview size to 1920, then File > Regenerate Previews. See if it changes anything.
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby russkny » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:45 am

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately changing the preview size to 1920 does not resolve the issue.

I also wanted to note that the preview becomes blurry when using any of the sliders on the Exposure, Color, Local Adjustment tabs, but not the Details tab. So when manipulating sharpness settings preview remains clear at 100% zoom, but as soon as I attempt to adjust brightness, saturation, exposure, etc. the preview becomes blurry and remains blurry until I release the mouse button.

The same happens on my MacBook Pro as well, so I don't think it's a hardware issue. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Thanks,
Russ
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby tenmangu81 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:11 pm

Everything is usually very fluid in Capture One and, as a matter of fact, it is on my Mac Book Pro, including rotation.
Maybe you should reload Capture One from scratch.
The last solution is to submit a case to the Phase One staff.
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby russkny » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:32 am

Hi,

Got a reply back from Phase One support saying that this is normal behavior: :(

This is normal and the way that Capture One operates. At 100% you are calculating from the Raw to show exactly how the image will look on output. This requires extra processing and the on screen view must be regenerated.


Never had this issue with Lightroom. And also, if the 100% preview can remain clear while manipulating Sharpness settings, why not also when adjusting other settings?

Here's a video I made to illustrate the issue ( https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/323 ... _issue.m4v ). Can users here please let me know if they are seeing the same on their end?

Sincerely,
Russ
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby russkny » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:03 am

Just made another video.

One can't even accurately compare (due to blur) the before and after at 100% zoom by temporarily resetting the value of the adjustment? How is this acceptable?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32388102/C1_issue2_compare.m4v

Best,
Russ
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby SFA » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:04 am

Yes what you are seeing in is usual for C1 so long as the slider is "active". Release it and all is well.

Some tools are having wo manipulate a lot more information than others. Start a calcualtion and then move the adjustment again before the calc is finished and your system will be dong a lot more work than it really needs to.

I'm not sure how LR works these days but back in V1 days I compared it with another RAW editor that was not C1 but processed things in a similar way. LR looked fast and proficient compared side by side. However to get to the end result of an edit took almost exactly the same time. LR processed in chunks of operation and sections of screen real estate as it went along. In contrast the other program took everything, did the work and then delivered the entire image in one hit. That approached looked slow but was not really.

As you get used to the amount of adjustment you wish to apply in C1 you may find that the issue generally goes away because you will know pretty much what you want to try. You will move the slider and release or dial in the adjustment in the numeric box (where available) and the calc will occur. Repeat if you feel the need to adjust further. If you don't release the slider but ensure that it is not "moving" the recalc occurs after a very short delay, presumably to eliminate the constant processing that would otherwise occur.

My guess is that if LR is showing the instant effects more instantly it may only be working on a subset of the data - perhaps only on the preview rather then all the way back to the RAW file. Can't be sure as I don't use LR but that is how it seemed to be working back in the early days. C1 may do the same - I don't know - but perhaps not to the same extent.

I understand how you might find it a challenge but I think after a while it probably won't bother you at all.


HTH.


Grant
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby russkny » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:59 pm

Hi Grant,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and comments on this.

I'm not sure how Lightroom performs calculations either, I just know that the preview never becomes blurry when making any sort of adjustments.

It's just odd that manipulating sharpness settings does not cause the preview to become blurry in C1, but something as basic (and likely a lot less CPU/GPU demanding) as brightness or tint makes preview blurry.

Also, how is temporarily resetting a parameter by clicking on its name a useful feature when it just makes preview blurry (at 100% zoom) while the mouse button is held on? This seems broken to me. Is this working as intended?

At least option-clicking on Local Reset arrow is somewhat useful (the preview still becomes blurry temporarily, so it's never truly a "before and after" comparison), but temporarily resetting a single parameter is completely unusable at 100% zoom.

I do like how C1 processes my RAW images, especially for portraits, so hopefully some of these snags can be addressed in the future, or I will simply have to find a way to work around these limitations.

Regards,
Russ
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Re: New user - C1 glitches/issues

Postby SFA » Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:48 pm

Russ,

As you enjoy the image quality more and more I think you will find other matters become less intrusive to your work with C1. Eventually they may become invisible.

Sharpening, I suspect, is in most case working on a subset of the pixels in an image not the whole. It will have rather different mathematics applied as well. The effect and the load on the system and the practicalities of what to display taking into account the many different standards of screens and GPUs and everything else that might be found in the user's system and files is likely to be quite a challenge.

I would guee that C1 does ground up re-calculations for many of its routines so the blurriness may well be a starting point with all but the most basic RAW corrections removed and the whole set re-applied as and when the time seems to be right according to what the user is doing.

So grab slider, move and release is signal to recalc.

Grab slider, move, no release .... is there another move coming? Wait a very short time to see. No? Time up, recalculate. But that very short time can seem like a long time to a user when busy.

If thee system also looked busy (even when it really was not) we would probably accept the elapsed time between perceived change and presentation of result without too much concern. I'm fairly sure that quite a lot of software is written with that sort of design philosophy to mask inherent processing bottlenecks.

But I could be wrong.


Grant
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