Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

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Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby NN69452 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:29 pm

Sorry if this has been discussed, I have not been able to find it in the forum.

I have thousands of NEF files with edits from CNX2. These files have Nikon proprietary fields, with the editing actions, and the rest is normal TIFF structure. Camera Raw, Lightroom, etc, are able to open these files without any problem, just ignoring the embedded jpg preview and CNX2 info.

Support for NEF files out of the camera by Capture One has no problem, but it however renders a completely crazy image if the NEF has been modified by CNX2. I have thousands of these files, so importing them onto a catalogue seems a very bad and useless idea, then considering Capture One to replace CNX2 does not seem to be an optimal solution.

See this example. The first pic is Capture One with a fresh NEF file. Then I edit it with CNX2. The second pic is how Capture One renders the file after the previous edit, and the final screenshot is LR showing the CNX2 edited file.

Image
Image
Image

Any ideas?
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby brianmerwin » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:34 pm

Greetings!

So, this is actually something that comes up often and what it's really rooted in is a misunderstanding about how RAW editing works and what Capture One actually is.

CNX2 and Capture One are both (among other things) RAW processing engines and they both use proprietary methods to process the image files. Most RAW processors are not cross compatible.

If you edit a raw file in Capture One and then import it in to Lightroom or Adobe Camera RAW without first processing the file out as pixels (PSD, TIF, JPG etc) LR/ACR will not be able to register the changes you made.

Likewise, CNX2 has it's own processing engine that uses proprietary methods that Capture One will never be able to read.

What I'm getting at here is that Capture One won't ever properly recognize the RAW edits you made in CNX2 unless you first export a TIF/JPG first because the two applications are not speaking the same language.

USUALLY what will happen in this case is that Capture One will open the RAW file just fine, but won't reflect any of the adjustments you made in CNX2. Why it's generating crazy previews as you've shown is a mystery. I'd recommend resetting raw adjustments from within Capture One on that particular image just to see if it will redraw the preview correctly. If not, it might be worth submitting a support ticket.

Either way - RAW processing engines are not alike, and Capture One probably won't ever operate the way you're trying to use it currently.
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby NN69452 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:18 am

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the response. I'm fully aware of how these RAW converters should work, and I'm not expecting Capture One to take into account the CNX2 edits, but at least to read the untouched RAW data and be able to render it, regardless of the additional proprietary CNX2 tags that are to be found at the NEF file. That is how the AdobeRAW, dcraw, and many other RAW converters work. The CNX2 edits are pretty unobtrusive in respect to the TIFF alike non-proprietary structure of the NEF file.

"Regenerate Preview" on Capture One gives the same psychedelic render. How can one open such a support ticket?
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby brianmerwin » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:04 am

NN69452 wrote:. How can one open such a support ticket?


Here you go: http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain.aspx
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby Drew » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:49 am

I am sorry but we cannot support any Altered RAW format.
The NEF files, exactly as they are written by the camera is all we can support.

We can certainly look into further support as a possibility in the distant future but this would fall quite low on the priority list as the complications involved are quite prohibitive at this time.
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby NN69452 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:53 am

Thanks for your response Drew, I've open a support ticket and provided sample files.

I share your point of view in principle, but in practice, you are not being asked to support altered raw files. The issue is that the basic raw data and companion exif and open tags have not been altered, and as such are processed by the rest of the world of raw converters. Your parser/engine must be considering other Control Point/proprietary MakerNote tags, and maybe that is the source of the problem.

In any case, if you can fix CO in this regards, that will provide a good fall back to CNX2 users.

Thanks in advance,

Miguel
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby OddS » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:44 pm

NN69452 wrote:...Your parser/engine must be considering other Control Point/proprietary MakerNote tags, and maybe that is the source of the problem.


Hi Miguel,

I wonder if the problem is a Mac only issue as I have not yet been able to reproduce the corrupt rendering you demonstrated. I have checked about 20 NEFs from D800E ingested using Photo Mechanic (v5), then adjusted using Capture NX2 (v2.4.7) and saved (as NEF). The modified NEFs open just fine in Capture One v8 on my Windows 7 PC. The initial thumbnail appears to be the embedded JPEG as saved by CNX2, but adjustments are gone when I open the file.

Perhaps the problem appears with Mac and not with a Windows PC? A CNX2 adjustment you made in your image and that I did not include in my tests, is also a potential explanation.

Edit: fixed typo nonsense, "I did include in my tests" corrected to "I did not include in my tests"
--
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Last edited by OddS on Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby HvTFoto » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:46 pm

brianmerwin wrote:Greetings!

So, this is actually something that comes up often and what it's really rooted in is a misunderstanding about how RAW editing works and what Capture One actually is.

CNX2 and Capture One are both (among other things) RAW processing engines and they both use proprietary methods to process the image files. Most RAW processors are not cross compatible.

If you edit a raw file in Capture One and then import it in to Lightroom or Adobe Camera RAW without first processing the file out as pixels (PSD, TIF, JPG etc) LR/ACR will not be able to register the changes you made.

Likewise, CNX2 has it's own processing engine that uses proprietary methods that Capture One will never be able to read.

What I'm getting at here is that Capture One won't ever properly recognize the RAW edits you made in CNX2 unless you first export a TIF/JPG first because the two applications are not speaking the same language.

USUALLY what will happen in this case is that Capture One will open the RAW file just fine, but won't reflect any of the adjustments you made in CNX2. Why it's generating crazy previews as you've shown is a mystery. I'd recommend resetting raw adjustments from within Capture One on that particular image just to see if it will redraw the preview correctly. If not, it might be worth submitting a support ticket.

Either way - RAW processing engines are not alike, and Capture One probably won't ever operate the way you're trying to use it currently.


I've experienced the very exact thing myself on my Mac's. I'm shooting uncompressed raw with Nikon D3x and Nikon D4. Files edited in Capture NX2 can't be read but I've found a workaround and that is to change the NX2 edited files to compressed (run a batch process in NX2). It takes time but when done the NX2 edited files can be read by CP8 (in its virgin unedited state). I know it's no an ideal solution and I can't figure out why compressed but not uncompressed NX2 edited nef's can be read by CP 8. Since NX2 is being discountinued (and it's not clear if NX2 will run under Yosemite) I'm contemplating to run a batch process on all my NX2 edited files and save as tiff's and compressed nef's so that I can make use of CP 8 going forward.
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby NN635482925231398145UL » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:46 pm

I wonder if the problem is a Mac only issue as I have not yet been able to reproduce the corrupt rendering you demonstrated.


Happens to me on Windows 7 x64 with NEF files from D300S processed by Capture NX V2.4.7. Also, as another poster discovered, if you save the NEF as Compressed, then Capture One will generate thumbnail and render image.
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby NN634960273814558926UL » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:59 pm

Of course, I have the same problem with edited raw files with CNX2 and posterized with CO8 and, before, with CO7. Luckily, there is a workaround. Use ( may be last time for ever ) CNX2 to export all your RAW files with the option of "compressed + loseless".

You are now able to use CO8 with all your nikon raw files. I tested this work with D1x, D200 and D4s files... everything is fine.
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby Peter Wijn » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:18 pm

Happy to see this exactly what seems to solve my problems with Capture One.
Loading a major part of the files of directories was not possible, using 8.01. Capture One simply didn't recognise those files.

The first photo I tried - it was not touched, nor saved before in Capture NX2 - was available to Capture One after saving in Capture NX2 (compressed lossles).
I'll report if the problem recurs.
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby PeterO » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:45 am

This workaround is a life saver for NX2 users. THANKS!

I'd suggest that Phase One should include it in their release notes rather than stubbornly lecturing us about compatibility issues (when ALL other RAW converters do it out of the box). It just might win you guys some more business from Nikon users :-)
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Re: Capture One goes nuts with CNX2 edited files

Postby Peter Wijn » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:38 pm

Looking better, I think it remains a serious issue after all.

The issue pops up unexpectedly with some of the files which are saved by a D800 camera at setting 14bit lossless compression. Also in files without any editing in Nikon Capture NX2.
Sometimes it concerns some files, in some directories many files, up to 30%.
I never change the way I save the files.

In all cases tried, it could be solved by saving these pictures again in Nikon Capture NX2, however...
... in future Nikon Capture NX2 will not be there to solve this Capture One Pro problem.

Some days ago, I tried twice to file this issue to technical support, with and without examples, but the requests failed to load. If requested I am happy to supply these files in another way.
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