Moire Moire Moire

Questions, comments and suggestions regarding Phase One P+ series and P series digital camera backs.

moire

Postby Guy G » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:00 am

Been reading all the coments about moire. I shoot with a Contax and P20 back. Just recently I shot a dancer in a red dress against a black background. I have a lot of moire problems. Not huge amounts of banding and color but enough and all over her dress to make it a real time-consuming problem. I shot with an 80mm lens at f8 - f11 @ 100 ISO and the dancer was moving. All the comments made by Keith don't work, the PS plug-in doesn't work and yesterday tried the new tool in 3.7.2 and it didn't work.

I bought this back to offer a better quality product than other shooters with Mk 1ds. I don't have the budget to own both. It is very dissapointing to be \"out-performed\" by a DSLR at half the price! And disappointing that P One would suggest to use a DSLR if the job can accept one! P One seems to acknowledge that Canon has done a great job with their CMOS sensors but just leave it at that comment.

Am I going to have to fork over another amount of money equal to another Mk 1 ds to upgrade to the P30 to be as efficient as the Canon?
Guy G
 
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Postby Ulf » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:45 pm

This is a very disturbing that you write this way and say that none of our tools works which we obviously have thousands of photographers and assistances working with on a daily basis.
I suggest you either contact your dealer so he will help you to get the tools to work (a kind of service you would never get if you buy a Canon camera) or you are also welcome to contact Phase One at http://support.phaseone.com but as I said, fastest and best support you should get from your dealer.

No we are not \"out shot\" by a Canon camera, the Canon is softer, has lower quality lenses and a lower bit depth (less information) then the medium format cameras / camera backs, add a cap-rock filter to your medium format camera and you will get softer result and by that less moiré.

I do not want to come across as offencive, I just think your post is venting fustrations more then looking at facts and trying to solve the issues you have come acrossed.
Ulf
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Moire

Postby Guy G » Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:39 am

Ulf. You are right. I was venting frustration. I love my P20 for many reasons. But I am frustrated, it seems as well as many, with the moire issues. If I can point out, you mention that the Pase One outperforms the Canon in one aspect by being sharper. Then you mention adding a cap-rock filter to soften the image which then negates that performance advantage, doesn't it?

I'm sorry if I came across as offensive. It's like having the perfect girlfriend and then discovering she snores louder than me!!!

I will probably upgrade to the P30 and I trust it really will have less moire problems. Any chance you are going to be able to correct the wide angle and movements problem? Also, why does the P30 not have the outside lighting advantage you mention with the P18?

I shoot in Vietnam where we really need to be able to be a generalist and It seems your products are getting more and more specialized.
Guy G
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:38 am
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

Postby Ulf » Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:52 pm

You are fighting an issue that has been there since day one of one-shot digital photography.
As you might notice on this whole thread is that some have issues with this and some has none.
It is all about knowing your equipment, especially lenses.
Also read this article about the new moiré tool.
http://www.phaseone.com/Content/Softwar ... ssion.aspx

Yes a filter will soften the image and will counteract moiré which is what is often done in lower end cameras.
The Lighphase was using 12micron chip where by it produced more moiré then the H10, H20, H25, P20 and P25 which are using 9micron technology.
The new generation back (P21, P30 and P45) is using 6.8micron pixels which will by that produce even less moiré, this however does not mean it is impossible to provoke, but it sure is harder.

P30 is using a micro lens technology on the chip where by we can not fix the limitations in Swing/Tilt functions when this is a limitation with this specific chip.
P20, P21, P25 and P45 do not use this kind of technology where by swing/tilt is possible.

I do not agree in you perception that our products is getting more specialized, the only product that is not truly all-around is the P30 due to the large format limitations but for many photographers this does not matter when they do not even own a large format camera.
Ulf
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Postby Bill12 » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:41 am

Hi, Joining the conversation late.
I rent the H25 on a regular basis. I shoot in the studio, still life and product. For a certain part of my work, it is great. Sharp beautiful images, and good software. However when I know I am going to shoot some kind of fabric or really anything with a pattern, I rent a multishot back. That eliminates Moire. Phase does have a big problem with Moire, but I suspect most other one shot backs do.
As far as changing Fstop or camera position or hand holding, that is really not possible for most shooters. I wonder what my clients would say if I wanted to put a soft focus filter on their product? J/K.
I am going to be buying a system this year and I think I am going to go with the Sinar system , which is both a one shot and a multishot 22 mp back. Best of both worlds, YAAAAA!
Product shooters UNITE!!!!
Bill12
 
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