any ideas

Questions, comments and suggestions regarding Phase One P+ series and P series digital camera backs.

any ideas

Postby Ashley11 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:46 pm

P25 is playing up - any ideas why this is happening ?
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Last edited by Ashley11 on Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Des1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:57 am

Afternoon Ashley,

Hmmm--I've had this with film on the ELX/M's-where the blind opens but is not sync'd with the lens/mirror/shutter on long exposures,typically say you let the cable release go sooner than the 1sec the bodt winds as the camera lens /exposes the film which continues to transports--giving that elongated highlight flare-- too simple-- I hope for your sake!

Incidentially when I worked for the late Terence Donovan in London-he showed me the 1sec trick with the stobe firing and shutter open you shakes the Blad and the tungsten background light streaks eat into the model-like twirling sparklers!

Will anticipate what answers you get--

Good Shooting,

Des W
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Postby FlemmingHandberg » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:06 am

Hi

What type of camera are you using?
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Postby Ashley11 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:38 am

555ELD and 503Cw.
At first I thought something was up with the 555 as that's the camera it was on when I first noticed it. Changed the camera and evevrything seemed okay. But the other day it happen with the 503. Seem to only happen when I turn the back, to do uprights at present.

Thought it may have been the cable so I changed that first but it didn't seem to be that.

Turn the back of and then on again and the first few frames will be fine, then funky stuff - Terence would have loved this :)
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Postby a_dan » Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:45 pm

excuse me, but there is no picture in your messege. can't you repeat it?
thank you!
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Postby Ashley11 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:39 pm

Image
Should look like this:
Image
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Postby damienlovegrove » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:41 pm

Cool effect! but seriously as far as I know CCD's read data in columns. These columns are usually perpendicular to the longest side. Highlights can often dump excess data to neighbouring pixels in these columns. But your funky fault goes the wrong way. The thing to try is to rotate the camera 180 degrees and see if the 300 pixel highlight to shadow bleed swaps direction. Try 400 iso at a 60th f4 to see if a shorter exposure is good. It's going to take a guru to solve that one. As for the magenta cast, I've no idea at all.
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Postby Ulf » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:26 pm

Ashey

I believe you have shot this tethered because it looks like a transfer error.
Few pointers.
1. Change Firewire cable
2. Try another firewire port
3. If you use a G5 use port on backside not front.
4. Make sure that firewire cable to lies close to Flash pack and flash cables. (Magnetic fields!)

The last one is good one, we have had reports that mobile phones can interfer with unshielded firewire cables.
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Re:

Postby Ashley11 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:25 pm

Hi UlfLiljegren
Thanks for getting back on this.

I believe you have shot this tethered because it looks like a transfer error.

Yes, shot tethered to a PowerBook G4 as is 99% of our work.

1. Change Firewire cable

Tried that, changed from 400/400 speed cable to 400/800 speed cable.
2. Try another firewire port

See above, so we did change ports as a result.
3. If you use a G5 use port on backside not front.

G4 PowerBook.
4. Make sure that firewire cable to lies close to Flash pack and flash cables. (Magnetic fields!)

We use the flash sync cable - hard wire is the only sure way I have found to trigger flash lights 100% of the time. The sync connection is close to the FireWire cable by design. Dangling remote slaves are not on and way to hit and miss I find anyway. Great when they work but a curse when they don't. If it is the flash lead, how come we are only see this now?
We have been working with the P25 since 8th September, 2004. Nothing in our set-up as changed.

we have had reports that mobile phones can interfer with unshielded firewire cables.

Hate mobile phones - never carry it with me during a shoot, so that rules that out.

I can get this type of result by using the FlexBody and not closing the lens down first before using the Kapture cable to fire the shutter. However, this is now happening with both the 503 and 555. We have downloaded the latest back software, but it's still happening.

It only seem to happen when we rotate the back which makes me think it's something to do with the lens to back cable but we have tried both the old and new type cable and it still kept happening. Usually if I change enough things ( camera body, lens, sync cable, FireWire cable, re-start the program, re-start the back, etc) it starts working again but I can't put my finger on what part of the set-up is causing it in the first place.
As with most niggles, it only happens when you are in the middle of a shoot and the clients watching. I could shot a 1000 frames of in the studio right now and it wouldn't happen once. Annoying.
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Postby NN247001UL » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:16 pm

I have seen the same effect using my P25 on a Rollie XactD. The issue was resolved by changing the latency setting to LONG, as opposed to SHORT.
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Postby Josef1 » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:01 pm

And I have seen the same effect really often using a RZ, and again with an older Hasselblad lens, usually with a slow shutter speed of 1/15 or below. The problem is the lens or more exactly the port where you plug in the cable which come from the back. I have an old RZ lens which isn't usable at all.

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Postby mongoman_1 » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:53 am

We have had similar results using a fuji gx 680 which requires a one shot release to sync the exposure time of the digital back to that of the camera. The similar effect that we have experienced has only happened under two different circumstance. The first of which is if the time on the one shot release is not synced properly to that of the camera and the proper capture of the image is not achieved. The second is the very rare occasion that you are able to double expose the image, eighter by pressing the shutter release on the camera twice or by one person pressing enter on the keyboard and another pressing the shutter release simulataneously so as to cause the back to double expose.
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Postby Stefan1 » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:46 am

I have magenta outlines with Hasselblad 503 CX and 80mm Planar at 1/8\".
1/15 is okay, 1/4 too. I was told that is is a sync problem of the
shutter.
I had a similiar effect not in magenta but in green with the H25 when
I shot to fast. When it happened at one exposure it happend continuously.
I had to quit the software and start again to get rid of it.
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Postby superbomba » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:06 am

Image - Image

i am using a hasselblad H1 with the P25. in the begining i thought that this was a problem with the back, but found out that the camera body is the problem.

when i tilt te camera down even 10 degrees down from the horizon, i begin to get this problems. sometimes it happens very often, sometimes not. if i try to shoot the floor straight down, i WILL get this magenta ghost.

i found out that the camera was the problem, not the back, one day that i was getting histerical about this (i was even thinking to smash my p25 against the floor) when i decided to remove the back from the camera. started shooting with no back attached and it was then when i noticed the problem.

camera leveled to the horizon = no problem
camera tilted down = the curtain of the camera didn't closed completely.

so if someone using the H1 has the same problems, chances are that you body is defective too. a friend of mine also with an H1 just broke his. same shutter problem.

IF someone is getting this kind of damaged files using other camera brand, please tell us.


could it be posible that the digital back is affecting the mechanical function of the camera??
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