Creating a Camera Profile

Questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One 5.x and 4.x for Mac and Windows

Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Michael6111 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:04 pm

Hi,
What is the step by step procedure for creating a camera profile? I have X-Rite's Passport Color Checker which is set up to work with Lightroom by using a dng file and creating a camera profile.
Being that Capture One also has the ability to read and create dng files is there a way to do the same within Capture One?... that is creating a camera profile as well?
Thanks,
Michael
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby deejjjaaaa » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:39 pm

Michael611 wrote:Hi,
What is the step by step procedure for creating a camera profile? I have X-Rite's Passport Color Checker which is set up to work with Lightroom by using a dng file and creating a camera profile.
Being that Capture One also has the ability to read and create dng files is there a way to do the same within Capture One?... that is creating a camera profile as well?
Thanks,
Michael


Capture One uses ICC/ICM profiles, not DCP profiles... it is not very easy to create an acceptable profile, let alone the one which will beat the profile(s) supplied by Phase One... there were some topics here where some steps were covered... basically you shot raw of course w/ properly exposed target and proper light - open that raw in C1 w/ ICC profile = "PhaseOne no color correction" and curve = "film standard" (as recommended by P1 here, but you can try what they call linear curve as well) and save it as 16 bit tiff w/ ICC profile = "embed camera profile"... then use whatever profile making software you have - be warned that resulting ICC/ICM profile should be v2 and most probably you will get ugly results after trying it w/ C1... as far as I understand not all profile making packages can generate I guess certain curves (I mean shape of those curves) that C1 expects to find in the profile... and Phase One never I guess put any explanation or manual how to and which 3rd party software can be used... so you can try to use available tools to see how things are done (what is inside) w/ existing P1 profiles and check if you can get close w/ your tools...
RAW:: .PEF (Pentax) + .RW2 (Panasonic) + .X3F (Sigma)...
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Michael6111 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:39 pm

Oh.. boy... and when you look how easy it is after watching X-Rite's Color Checker Passport with Lightroom, it makes one sick..

At the very least, with the competition, the developers of Capture One would think this thru!
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Jon » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:30 pm

There is a very different philosophy between what you are doing with the Colorchecker passport in Lightroom and what we are doing in Capture One. Basically the Color checker passport is creating a DNG profile which is not the same as an ICC profile. The DNG profile is a collections of selective color adjustments that are made to the image after a base color is assumed for the image. This base color is not necessarily very accurate and the adjustments are need to make it accurate. What we are doing is creating specific ICC profiles for each camera that establish the proper color relationships from the beginning.
Kind Regards,
Jon Gilbert
Phase One
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Michael6111 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:06 am

Thanks for the honest reply Jon and your answer makes sense.
Is there a "SIMPLE" step by step that Capture One Users can follow in order to create a specific camera profile?
I'm using the following:
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 1Ds Mark II
Canon 40 D
It would be nice for me to keep things consistent. I have other photographers that use these cameras so it would be great to all be on the same page in terms of the color/density of the same subject.
Thanks,
Michael
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Jon » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:12 pm

When it comes to profiling of cameras there is not "simple" step. the process itself is not difficult... shoot a target, process the file with no color correction or profiles applied and then run profile making software like Profile Maker or Color Eyes 20/20. The difficult part is controlling all variables in the target capture phase enough to produce a very good result. Unless you need specific results for something like art reproduction you will most likely get the best results using the profiles we have created for the cameras in Capture One. We do profile each camera specifically, and do not rely on manufacturer supplied profiles.

If you do wish to create your own profiles, in Capture One select "No color correction" from the effect heading for the camera profile (base characteristics) and then embed camera profile as your output profile in the process recipe. That will produce a file with no color management.
Kind Regards,
Jon Gilbert
Phase One
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Michael6111 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:50 am

Thanks Jon!
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby OViktor » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:32 am

Hi!
I have some problem with create my own icc profiles to P65+ back. The Color Checker Passport software send an error message and i can't solve the problem (i try many ways). The CCP works correctly with the DNG from Nikon D3... Is there any idea, how can i make icc for the C1. Any free ways?
Thanks,
Viktor
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:19 pm

OViktor wrote:Hi!
I have some problem with create my own icc profiles to P65+ back. The Color Checker Passport software send an error message and i can't solve the problem (i try many ways). The CCP works correctly with the DNG from Nikon D3... Is there any idea, how can i make icc for the C1. Any free ways?
Thanks,
Viktor

This kind of question reappears every now and then here, with some very helpful insights from the more initiated. I kept this thread in my bookmarks, but there might be more to find both here and on the big interwebs.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6441
Best regards,
Paul E. Steunebrink (LinkedIn), Capture One trainer
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby OViktor » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:36 pm

Paul_E wrote:
OViktor wrote:Hi!
I have some problem with create my own icc profiles to P65+ back. The Color Checker Passport software send an error message and i can't solve the problem (i try many ways). The CCP works correctly with the DNG from Nikon D3... Is there any idea, how can i make icc for the C1. Any free ways?
Thanks,
Viktor

This kind of question reappears every now and then here, with some very helpful insights from the more initiated. I kept this thread in my bookmarks, but there might be more to find both here and on the big interwebs.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6441


Hm. This is interesting but i need dng at the end of the process, because the ColorCheckerPassport use only this format to make icc. (The link tells me, how to make tiff with no correction, but the ccp can't read tiff.) I'd like to create an icc to process anoter pictures correctly. (It's hard to me, sorry:))
Thank you for help :)
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:47 pm

OViktor wrote:.. Is there any idea, how can i make icc for the C1. Any free ways?

Maybe you can try this:
http://www.colorxact.net/content/view/118/417/lang,en/
Best regards,
Paul E. Steunebrink (LinkedIn), Capture One trainer
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby NN248561UL2 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:45 pm

Hi Jon,

I get your point BUT let's say we shoot a catalog, and the model is surrounded by grass, and the client of course want their clothes to be a precise color in print. On top of that, our strobes might not be the exact color temperature, etc. In these cases (a good percentage of my jobs as Digi Tech), what use is the profile from Phase One for the Canon 1Ds Mark3 for example, or even a P30+? Doing a gray balance is not going to bring the reds where they should be or any other color. So I need to make a profile for each situation where I need the colors to be faithfull. That's a tough one because apps like ProfileMaker is $2,500 - ouch.

Take care
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Re: Creating a Camera Profile

Postby Stretch » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:39 am

I've been using ColorEyes 20/20 since it came out with much more accurate results than the Phase profiles. I do a lot of catalog shooting so the program pays for itself very quickly.

http://www.integrated-color.com/cecamera/index.html
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