Colorchecker passport with C1?

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Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Steinar12 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:41 pm

Hi!

I have been thinking of buying a colorchecker passport or something like that. But I don´t understand how to use it in conjunction with C1. I read the manual some time ago, and it seemed like it wouldn´t work.

Has anyone here got any experience with this combination?

:) Steinar
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:53 pm

This is discussed more than a few times in the CO6/Mac forum. If you do a search on 'colorchecker' you might find your answer.

In short: ColorChecker Passport is for creating DNG-based camera profiles, in contrast to ICC-based camera profiles Capture One relies on.
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby deejjjaaaa » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:44 am

Paul_E wrote:In short: ColorChecker Passport is for creating DNG-based camera profiles, in contrast to ICC-based camera profiles Capture One relies on.


however you can create ICC/ICM profiles using it along w/ such free software as Argyll CMS as well ( http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/Scenarios.html#PS1 ) ... it is another story if you can manage to create "better" (and compatible w/ C1) profiles than supplied by P1 ones.
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Steinar12 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:49 pm

Hi and thanks!

I am shooting with Nikon. My main use for a colorchecker would be to get the colors more correct when shooting products or clothes.

I understand it would be a challenge even then to get the colors to match completely, but I figured it would be easier to get, say, the right shade of pink etc.

I could get myself a gretag macbeth card, but I am at loss at just how it would be different from any graycard?

Will search the mac forum. What do you people use then?

:) Steinar
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby deejjjaaaa » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:13 pm

Steinar12 wrote:
I could get myself a gretag macbeth card, but I am at loss at just how it would be different from any graycard?

Will search the mac forum. What do you people use then?

:) Steinar


if you want to use XRite to do white balance then it has a good dedicated WB patch ( http://www.rmimaging.com/information/Co ... Report.pdf ), better than many WB cards that you can buy... and you do not want "any" graycard - you want as white as possible, with high and as uniform/flat reflectance as possible...
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Steinar12 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:13 pm

I already have two whitebalance tools, so I would not get a gretag card just for that.

The point of having a gretag card would be to have more and better control of the different colors and saturation etc. In effect having some software making a profile from it and applying it to the images.

The question is how can I use f ex a colorchecker passport to make ICC profiles from it? What software would do that?

:)
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:27 pm

Steinar12 wrote:The question is how can I use f ex a colorchecker passport to make ICC profiles from it? What software would do that?

Hint: you could rephrase your question by asking yourself/the forum which software can create ICC camera profiles and which target does the program use to do that?
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Steinar12 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:51 pm

:D
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby ben43456 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:21 am

Why can't P1 people just make use a profile that is designed for accuracy. Although, I already find the profiles more accurate than most other software. Heck, it's even much more accurate than Nikons own picture controls. I am using D700 NEF's and using the V2 profile.
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby deejjjaaaa » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:48 pm

Steinar12 wrote:The question is how can I use f ex a colorchecker passport to make ICC profiles from it? What software would do that?


houston, do you copy (c)

did you read the postings above ? argyll will do for free - but, C1 expects ICC/ICM profiles to have a certain content/tags w/ certain content, so there are extra work required - so it is not that easy and in the end you might be better off w/ using/tweaking the shipped profiles.
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Pjotr » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:38 am

The answer is pretty simple: Forget about using Colorchecker passport with C1. Have been along that route, there is a DNG --> ICC converter free on the web. It's very tedious and time consuming with poor results.

Color checker passport is a great tool and works very well especially for product photography, but only in conjunction with development software it is designed for. Then it's really a great time saver.
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Steinar12 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:39 pm

Thanks everyone for your contributions!

deejjjaaaa, I did read the above, and it seems to me like quite a project to get into. But I need this process to be easy and quick. This is also not something I am likely to spend a lot of time and effort on, as it is pretty rare I need this degree of color accuracy.

I think I´ll make a request to the support team. Maybe they could make C1 use DNG profiles or provide some software to make ICC profiles from a target like fex the colorchecker sometime in the future. I guess a lot of people occasionally would need such a thing.

:)
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Wilson32 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:47 pm

I too need to do this, as whereas C1 (V7.1pro) opens my Leica New M (Typ 240) DNG files, there is no profile as yet. The default DNG profile is not good with blues not too bad but yellows, greens and reds all wrong. I have a Gretag-Macbeth colour checker chart (somewhere!). I would probably intend to use a Summarit 75/2.5 or Elmarit 90/2.8 as the most colour neutral of all my lenses. In ACR it is easy - you just take a photo of the chart and import it into Adobe DNG profile maker and save the end result. In any case the release candidate version 7.4 of ACR now supports the new M. Is there something similar buried in the menus of C1 to make custom profiles? I think I am correct that I cannot use the Adobe profile in C1

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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby nggalai » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:22 pm

Wilson,

I gave it a shot a while ago for M9 DNG files Lightroom recompressed, and thus CaptureOne can’t interpret correctly. Thankfully, I had switched to CO quickly after I got the M9, so not too many pictures were affected and I didn’t need to reprocess all of them, anyway.


I used a standard 24 patches ColorChecker and the above mentioned ArgyllCMS software:

http://www.argyllcms.com/

For reference: I called the TIFF file necessary to create the profile “ColorChecker.tif” and saved it in my home folder, inside a subfolder called “LeicaM“. That is: ~/LeicaM/ColorChecker.tif. I’m on OSX.


1) First, you need a “linear” TIFF of your DNG file for creating an ICC/ICM profile. In CaptureOne, open the ColorChecker photo and select “No color correction” in the Base Characteristics panel / “ICC Profile: Effects”.

2) In your output recipe, embed “camera profile” rather than sRGB or AdobeRGB. This makes sure colour values are transferred 1:1 from DNG to TIFF render, with no colour management in-between. Set output to TIFF 16bit.

3) In Terminal (again, Mac), use

Code: Select all
scanin -dioa -p ~/LeicaM/ColorChecker.tif /Applications/Argyll_V1.5.1/ref/ColorChecker.cht /Applications/ArgyllCMS_V1.5.1/ref/ColorChecker.cie


(all in one line) to create a diagnostic black-and-white preview. This will show whether ArgyllCMS recognised all colour patches of your ColourChecker card. If Argyll can’t properly outline all patches, reshoot the image.

This is my ArgyllCMS installation; on Windows or with other versions, the paths to ColorChecker.cht and ColorChecker.cie will be different.

4) If it worked, use above scanin line without the -dioa -p switches. This will produce the file “ColorChecker.ti3”, an ArgyllCMS proprietary measurement format.

5) Now, to generate an ICC/ICM file CaptureOne can understand, you’ll need to use ArgyllCMS’s colprof program:

Code: Select all
colprof -ax -qm -kz -y -u ~/LeicaM/ColorChecker


This will produce a Matrix profile (rather than a LUT profile more suitable for scanners), with “normal quality” effort at doing so, looking to optimise for “minimal black”, and using no whitepoint extrapolation (because with only 24 patches on a standard ColorChecker, this would garble up your ICC profile quicksmart). The profile will be named “ColorChecker.icm”.

There’s loads of other switches you can use inside colprof, e.g. to set a profile name, but I found it easier to add metadata inside OSX’s ColorSync system utility.

Results were iffy and only applicable for exactly the type of light I shot the ColourChecker in, preferably with exactly the same exposure, too (no exposure edits in post!). As I only needed it for a select few images I wanted to reprocess in CaptureOne, this wasn’t a biggie for me.

Should this quick-and-dirty experiment work for you, you will get better and more robust ICC profiles either by …

… using -qh (high quality effort) or -qu (ultra effort) with colprof/ArgyllCMS, which can take hours to compute and not produce that much better results …

… or shelling out for better ICC software such as basICColor’s “input”. Such software can use multiple targets to create more robust ICC profiles with dual illuminants rather than one – thus making the ICC profile more versatile in different light situations –, batch process, correct for spot colours etc., but they go for a couple of hundred Euro up to a few thousands a pop.

Another thing worth trying is other targets than the ColorChecker; Hasselblad e.g. suggests using a ColorChecker Digital SG chart, mostly as it has far more colour patches than the “old” ColorChecker – 140 vs/ 24. I guess that’s also what PhaseOne uses for creating their CaptureOne profiles. It’s sort of an industry standard for digital cameras.

Hope this helps, even should it make you hold back until PhaseOne releases proper Leica M Typ 240 profiles themselves ;). Creating proper ICC profiles isn’t easy, quick, and often quite expensive. Adobe really has a killer feature with its DNG profiles supported by X Rite’s ColorChecker Passport software.

-Sascha
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Re: Colorchecker passport with C1?

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:26 pm

Wilson32 wrote:I too need to do this, as whereas C1 (V7.1pro) opens my Leica New M (Typ 240) DNG files, there is no profile as yet.

Please note that CO 7.1.1 now supports Leica M (Typ 240) DNG files.
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